Fire Door Removal in older 3-storey property

[Guest Matt]

Hi there

We are currently selling our 3-storey property.  We have had a viewer who claims to be in the building regulations business and stated that we 'may' have issues at the conveyancing stage as we have removed 2 doors however he said it was a 'grey area' due to when the house was built and when we removed them - so I thought I would give the full scenario here and see if anyone can offer some definitive advice please.

House - 3 storey semi-detached townhouse built in 2004, purchased by us in 2009

Ground floor - hallway off of which kitchen at front, lounge at rear (leading to garden through french doors), and small toilet room.  Fire doors (with auto-close) from hallway to kitchen and hallway to lounge completely removed due to being space hungry and generally awkward.  The doors have been retained in the shed.

Middle Floor - 2 bedrooms and bathroom - auto-close on both bedrooms disabled as seemed more danger closing on children

Top floor - unchanged.

Thanks

Matt

[AnthonyB]

The version of building regulations in force at the time of build is here: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20141202130432/http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADB_2000.pdf

Older version of ADB required self closers in flats & certain houses, however the current approach is such that you no longer need them to the stair. However on all levels you must retain the fire doors.

If you wish to sell your house without hitting problems you need to refix the missing doors, but not the self closers

 

[Guest Matt]

On 15/10/2020 at 19:18, AnthonyB said:

The version of building regulations in force at the time of build is here: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20141202130432/http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADB_2000.pdf

Older version of ADB required self closers in flats & certain houses, however the current approach is such that you no longer need them to the stair. However on all levels you must retain the fire doors.

If you wish to sell your house without hitting problems you need to refix the missing doors, but not the self closers

 

Thanks - I understand though that if the purchaser is happy to accept the house without the doors attached this is ok?

[AnthonyB]

Yes, as long as they are owner occupiers it wouldn't be an issue as long as they accepted the risk as it would only be raised if they were doing further alterations under Building Regulations.

[Guest Matt]

On 19/10/2020 at 17:16, AnthonyB said:

Yes, as long as they are owner occupiers it wouldn't be an issue as long as they accepted the risk as it would only be raised if they were doing further alterations under Building Regulations.

Thanks Anthony - do you mind if I ask what qualifications you hold in case anyone challenges me on this (just so I can go back and say 'someone on this forum with these qualifications has told me.....')

[AnthonyB]

I'm on the Nationally Accredited Fire Risk Assessors Register (NAFAR). 

[Guest Matt]

1 hour ago, AnthonyB said:

I'm on the Nationally Accredited Fire Risk Assessors Register (NAFAR). 

Thank you - I assume with there being only one Anthony B on the register you are the one based in the Milton Keynes area

[AnthonyB]

You are looking at the wrong register (there is more than one!) https://www.ifsm.org.uk/fra-registers/assessors/buck-anthony-charles/

[Guest Matt]

2 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

You are looking at the wrong register (there is more than one!) https://www.ifsm.org.uk/fra-registers/assessors/buck-anthony-charles/

Thank you very much for all your advice

[Guest Guest Gee]

Hi, i have a similar query to this 3 floors all 1st floor and above all standard. But where stairs meets hallway i have cut wall and removed doorway completely due to very small kitchen refit. It was not load bearing so doesn’t need planning but could throw up problems with fire regulations. Currently selling property and buyer is so far happy. But i want it all ticked off as to go smoothly.

any answers would be much appreciated please 

regards 
gee

[Tom Sutton]

So a fire in the kitchen would smoke log the the staircase and prevent people using the staircase, not a good idea definately against fire safety guidance.

[Guest Samcon]

Hi we live in a 2004 built end of terrace townhouse and have replaced our doors with non fire doors. Would our insurance be void in the event of a fire? Online it says new builds have to have fire doors but our house is now 19 years old. 

[AnthonyB]

Internal doors would have been fire doors even when your house was built - Building Regulations are such that you must not make anything to a lesser standard than when originally approved. Whether an insurer would use this to reject or reduce a claim is up to the individual insurer, it depends on the wording of the policy. Similarly it depends on how in depth a surveyor is as to whether they would flag this up on a home buyers survey.