Adding vision panel to fire door

[Guest MarkPla]

I need advice on the size of the vision panels seen in most fire doors. Also is there a supplier who supplies just the individual vision panel as i have a hardwood door but i need to put in a vision panel so hence the need to buy a separate one.

thanks

[Tom Sutton]

Is this a fire resisting door and how is it marked? We have discussed something similar on another thread with regards to retro fitting a ventilation grille, check out but this is more problematic because what you propose to install has not been tested at all.

[Guest csherm]

Hi

I have a similar question. Could you advise me about the size of glazing permitted in half hour fire doors?

Cheers

[Safelincs]

Hi

Usually you would choose from a range of sizes when purchasing a new fire door.

Typical glazed window sizes (in mm) are

457 x 457

150 x 1410

229 x 914

two panes (top 150 x 760 and bottom 150 x 450) to ensure wheelchair users can see through the glazing.

As I say these would normally be ordered at the time of fire door purchase (see http://www.safelincs.co.uk/Fire-Doors-with-30-minutes-protection-FD30/ as an example)

If you consider retro-fitting fire door glazing you must use an approved installer.

Harry

[Tom Sutton]

For the maximum size of fire resisting glazing check out http://www.eastbourn...vicetype=Inline but I would suggest you keep vision panels as small as reasonable practical and to confirm the information contact your local building control.

For more information check out http://www.ggf.org.u...4a7f50398c2.pdf

[Guest MarkPla]

Hi Tom

The project I am working on is the renovation of a old heritage building and as usual the heritage buffs need us to keep the character of the building. The doors leading onto the main central stairway are hardwood doors with the four panels built in. We intend to cover the inside panel with a non combustible material, which is the South African product called flex it sheeting which will cover the weak point of the door ie the panels. However the doors because they are leading onto the main central stairway will require vision panels which we were hoping to cut out one of the panels and install a 30 min fire resistant glass panel 30 minute rating. The panel will be then secured with wooden strips. I was originally going to get custom made doors from the UK, however because they want to keep the character of the building they are not really forthcoming on getting the ready made fire doors.

Would appreciate your thoughts on the work I proposed for the original doors.

Kind regards

Mark

[Tom Sutton]

Hi Mark

A few observations on this subject but by no means a definitive response.

If you install a certified fire door set and any modifications are done by approved contractors the door set remains certified. The documentation provides a guarantee and any enforcing officer (EO) would most certainly accept it.

If you upgrade a door then it’s up to you to prove the door will perform as required this is done by a risk assessment and you convincing the EO.

First of all I would upgrade the door by using the English Heritage guide, check out http://www.helm.org.....pdf?1325965679 for heritage building, this is organisation to follow.

I found a product called Therm-a- Flex who provides a test details. If flex is similar then any documentation from them could prove useful with your fire door assessment.

As for the vision panel I would use retro fit modules especially if the provide any form of guarantee.

Finally I would talk to the EO before you do anything because if s/he will not accept it and you are not prepared to go all the way then it could be a very expensive exercise.

Check out http://www.communiti...e/heritagehotel this is how complicated it can get.

[Guest TomBald]

Hi

What are the regulations regarding having glazing in a fire door?

Also what is the glazing needed for and where does it need to be positioned in the door?

Cheers

Tom

[Tom Sutton]

The The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 does not require you to have glazing in a fire door however if your Health and Safety risk assessment requires it then it must be fire resisting glazing. What is the glazing needed for and where does it need to be positioned in the door is a matter for the H&S risk assessment but if it is needed in a fire door it needs to be fire resisting and as small as possible.

Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-doors/

[Guest David m]

If a public building has vision panels in doors can they be changed to obscure glazing?

[Guest DennisBro]

Good morning , i am a safety coordinator on a Heritage Steam Railway, we have two Fire Doors into our work shop , can we put satey glass windows into the door or will this validate the integrity of the door?

[Tom Sutton]

Dennis If you wish to add fire resisting glazing to a fire door, you can, if it installed by a person certificated to modify fire doors or has the necessary competence. Check out http://fdis.co.uk/ also http://www.bwf.org.uk/choose-wood/fire-doors.

[Tom Sutton]

David the purpose of the vision panel is to see what is on the other side of the door and if it was obscure it would not serve the purpose. If the doors are fire doors then the glazing would have to be fire resisting glass.

[Guest ahowlings]

On 20/03/2015 at 7:19 PM, Tom Sutton said:

the purpose of the vision panel is to see what is on the other side of the door and if it was obscure it would not serve the purpose

Is there any law which states (in schools) that paper notices should not be attached to the glass in internal doors from a health and safety point of view?

[Tom Sutton]

As far as fire safety is concerned there could be a surface spread of flame problem but as far as H&S is concerned I do not know you should try http://www.healthandsafetytips.co.uk/forums/index.php or the HSE website.

[Guest jo white]

Has anyone ever seen any blinds or flaps for covering the vision panel in a fire door?

[Tom Sutton]

Find out why a vision panel has been fitted, and see if it is acceptable to cover it, if it is then I am sure you can find a bespoke supplier of blinds or covers.

[Guest NKT]

The entire point of the vision panel is so that the occupier can see if a fire, or smoke, is going on, through the door. A cover would prevent that, so no, bad idea!

[Tom Sutton]

If it is an inner room situation then I would agree with you, but other doors it is more likely to be an health & safety issue to prevent people either side of the door trying to open the door at the same time and smashing into each other, like kitchen doors in a restaurant.

[AnthonyB]

Which would potentially still be wrong, just not under fire legislation!

[Guest PAUL JACKSON]

MORNING.

WE HAVE A SELECTION OF FIRE DOORS WITHIN THE COMMUNAL CORRIDORS OF STUDENT ACCOMMODATION, A FIRE COMPANY HAS CONFIRMED THAT THE VISION PANELS LOWER THE INTEGRITY OF THE FIRE DOOR BECAUSE THESE VISION PANELS WERE RETRO FITTED [THEY HAVE THE RELEVANT GLASS, ETC], IS THIS THE CASE THAT WE MUST REPLACE ALL THE FIRE DOORS?

SECOND POINT: IF WE MUST REPLACE ALL THE FIRE DOORS, CAN THESE DOORS BE FIRE DOOR BLANKS [NO VISION PANEL]? 

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

I would recommend seeking the advice of a certificated fire door inspector at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector   Vision panels may be retro fitted in some fire doors provided the work is done correctly and the door is suitable so you need advice from somebody qualified to carry out the necessary inspection work.

[Guest Ian Kendall]

Hi , I have been asked to change the fire doors in a stairwell on a block of residential flats, the original doors don’t have vision panels but have been told the new door sets will need them in. Is this true ? The block consists of 5 floors including the ground flloor where the escape doors are.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

I have inspected many fire doors to stair and lift lobbies at blocks of flats. Some older blocks have doors without vision panels but clearly a door in such a location is safer for the user when there's a vision panel.

[Guest Stoney58]

Hi can anyone fit a glazing panel into a fire door or do they have to be approved/certified thanks