Composite Fire doors

[Steve Blakemore]

Hi. Probably a daft question but there is only one British Standard regarding fire doors irrespective what the door is made from? Ie wood or composite .

The gaps around the door seem to vary on FD30s doors from 3mm to in some cases 10mm at a job I have been on. The client has gone back to the manufacturer and installer and their reply to the customer is they meet the standards for composite  doors, where I have failed them on an inspection due to the gap sizes. 

To me it looks like bad installation , but as this is the reply from them to the customer it has made me think. In some cases where is is a 6mm gap the smoke seal brushes are actually making contact with the door, so to me these brushes don't meet the standard of 4mm either. 

Any help is appreciated.

Steve 

[Tom Sutton]

The gaps on all fire doors irrespective of what they are made of, should be 3mm +/- 1mm  on the sides and top of the door. The threshold should be 3mm or a smoke seal fitted.

Check out ASDMA Best Practice Guide.

[Steve Blakemore]

3 hours ago, Tom Sutton said:

The gaps on all fire doors irrespective of what they are made of, should be 3mm +/- 1mm  on the sides and top of the door. The threshold should be 3mm or a smoke seal fitted.

Check out ASDMA Best Practice Guide.

Thanks Tom that's what I thought 

[Neil ashdown]

Composite fire resisting doors are required to be tested to the same standard as timber based fire doors, BS 476 part 22 and/or BS EN 1634-1.  If the composite fire doors are new and you have a doubt about the installation contact the manufacturer for the product data sheet including installation instructions.

Common faults, in my experience, are incorrect fixing positions (of fixing screws door-set to wall), inadequate fire stopping (BS 8214:2016) and excessive door leaf to frame gaps.  Use of the correct intumescent gaskets to lock-sets, door-viewers and hinges is very important in regard to these types of fire door too.

[Steve Blakemore]

Thanks Neil. The customer has contacted the the manufacturer who sadly is also the installer and they have come back saying they meet all the standards required. I have a meeting with the customer next week where I will get them to request the installation instructions as there us no way they could say and un even gap of between 3mm to 10 is acceptable and also being FD30s then with a 3mm gap been brush and frame can be acceptable. Sadly I have come across this co.pany supplying and fitting doors for 2 large housing associations with the same problem. Steve 

[Guest Ian Cavanagh]

As a former composite door fabricator I would suggest asking for either the ‘Product Manual’ if you are talking about a composite door (Nanya or similar) in perhaps an LB Plastics PVC-u door frame - where LB Plastics will in effect hold the ‘certification’ for the doorset with fabricators using their certification effectively on licence, or if the fabricator has their own test evidence then a copy of that. 
The ‘correct’ gaps around the door are exactly as detailed in the test report and may well differ from the ‘normal’ 3mm - 4mm we’re used to seeing. 
Sadly my memory isn’t good enough to recall such detail and I no longer have the manuals to refer to. 

[Steve Blakemore]

Thanks for that all info is very helpful, cheers. 

[Steve Blakemore]

Well I passed on the helpful information I received, the client pushed the manufacturer for all the documentation. The information that came back was very sketchy to say the least even a hand drawn smoke seal ………. then at the beginning of this week they went bust (bit of a coincidence ) so sadly the housing association and another large one in Wales will now have to foot the bill for the remedial work needed. Thanks again for your replies.

[AnthonyB]

Who was the manufacturer? Worth knowing in case there's other poor stuff out there.

[Steve Blakemore]

On 14/11/2019 at 22:27, AnthonyB said:

Who was the manufacturer? Worth knowing in case there's other poor stuff out there.

Sorry just browsing through and never replied to your question. The company was Total Doors in Wales. Am back inspecting composite doors again and am now armed with all the correct tech information. If it had been followed by the installers then great but sadly not so the gaps are mostly wrong and the frames are twisted. The gaos however around the doors should be 4mm + 1 or - 2 for your info, but not sure if that only applies to the Winkhaus brand or all composite doors. Likewise they are fitted with 2 intumescent strips 15mm x 4mm and 10mm x 3mm. The smoke seal is An Aquamac 21 which is a weather seal but has been tested for smoke when used with this manufacturer.