Does ventilation grille damage fire door?

[Guest JohnCr]

We have a client that has inserted ventilation panels into his paint mixing room fire door, to allow better air flow. We believe that this has damaged the integrity of the door and he should no longer class it as a fire door.

Where can I find some documented evidence to support our belief and persuade him to buy a new fire door.

[Tom Sutton]

You can have intumescent or automatic ventilation grilles in fire doors it all depends on the results of your fire risk assessment. Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-doors/

[Safelincs]

Hi John

You can use air transfer grilles in fire doors http://www.safelincs...ansfer-Grilles/

Harry

[Ryan Mcmullan]

In response to your query, intrumecent air transfer grills can be fitted to fire doors, though these doors must have been tested (test fire) by the manufacturer with the transfer grill in question fitted.The air transfer grill must be fitted by a licensed fitter (BWF) and the recommended unit fitted in line with the manufactures guidance. If he has fitted a transfer grill himself intrumecsent or not it will no longer be a certified fire door, subject to a FRA it may need replacing.

[Tom Sutton]

Ryan I agree with what you say, but what about those thousands of fire doors that are not certified fire door sets which I term nominal fire doors its just another item to assess when deciding if the fire door will meet the required standard.

If it needs to be replaced, then I would insist on a certified fire door set to replace it.

[Guest Ryan Mcmullan]

I think the main issue would be the fact that now the fumes from the paint mixing room can vent into the building, further spreading the risk.

I am just interested in the door to which the question mentions and not all the doors in the Uk . When I carry out a FRA it is based on the individual premises and what might be the set up in another . If the fire door is not a fire rated door, then what standard is there for it to meet exactly ;)

[Tom Sutton]

The paint mixing room could have a large fan extracting the fumes to outside the premises and the vent in the fire door could be an input vent, without knowing a lot more and preferably a physical inspection then it is very difficult to make a decision.

The original question stated " We believe that this has damaged the integrity of the door and he should no longer class it as a fire door" this would indicate it is a fire door and IMO only a FRA of the door can determine if the door can still be considered a fire door.

[Guest C Wood]

Are the Safelincs intumescent grills suggested suitable for use on a boiler room fire door that opens into a stairwell?

[Shawn Bosworth]

21 hours ago, Guest C Wood said:

Are the Safelincs intumescent grills suggested suitable for use on a boiler room fire door that opens into a stairwell?

As previously mentioned, whether the door would be still considered a certified fire door after fitting the grille is a matter for the FRA, but the intumescent grilles http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-rated-intumescent-air-transfer-grilles/ are suitable for any door that requires air flow while maintaining integrity in the event of a fire. So they should be fine for the boiler room door.

It is highly recommended that you confirm this with a fire risk assessor.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Cold smoke separation will likely be an issue where a fire door opens onto a staircase. Ensure your fire risk assessment addresses fire and cold smoke separation issues before making a decision about the requirements for the door. 

[Guest George]

We have a situation where the fire officer is wanting a fire rated air vent that will also close if smoke is detected, we are struggling to find such a product. He assures us that they do exist. Can anyone help? Thanks  

[Harry]

Hi George, here some fire rated air vents that we sell. The intumescent material inside swells in a fire and closes off the vent. 

Harry

[Tom Sutton]

Check out Fire and Smoke Resistant  Dampers / Air Transfer Grilles it is important to use the correct terminology.
 

[Guest Stu]

It would have to be a automatic grill if it’s to stop cold smoke intumescent grills will only close in the event of a fire

[Guest Alan]

Hi , quick question, How can I tell if the grilles in a fire door are fire rated grilles. ?? thanks 

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Remove the grille cover and check inside to see if an intumescent air transfer grille has been fitted. Such intumescent grilles are often labelled on one edge with details of fire performance, which should be a test to BS 476 part 22 or BSEN 1634-1.  The intumescent grille should be a tight fit in the aperture and depending on the construction of the door core the aperture may require a hardwood or intumescent liner.

Example of an intumescent air transfer grille can be found here https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-rated-intumescent-air-transfer-grilles/?fGB=true&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImoKltsbW4QIVxbTtCh1uVQ4XEAYYASABEgITtPD_BwE

[Guest Harvey]

If I have fire door that has been tested to BS 476 part 22, and I am wanting to install a vision proof air transfer grille tested to BS 476 part 20, will this be compliant or does the exact air transfer grille (product) need to be tested with the fire door set (product) (two separate products tested to the same standard)? Does it also make a difference it being tested to part 22 or part 20?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

BS 476 part 20 is the fire performance test for building materials and structures whereas the BS 476 part 22 is the fire performance test for non-load bearing elements of construction, including fire doors. 

Therefore if installing a fire rated air transfer grille to a fire door, the product should have evidence of fire performance to the same standard as the fire door.

[Guest Harvey]

22 minutes ago, Neil Ashdown CertFDI said:

BS 476 part 20 is the fire performance test for building materials and structures whereas the BS 476 part 22 is the fire performance test for non-load bearing elements of construction, including fire doors. 

Therefore if installing a fire rated air transfer grille to a fire door, the product should have evidence of fire performance to the same standard as the fire door.

Cheers Neil.?

[Guest Alison]

Hi - We have a fire door to a small server room which has an air transfer grill in place and on checking this has smoke seals and intumescent seals present.  This has been fitted retrosepctively so there's no certification available.  It was fitted by a joiner on site.  Would this be satisfactory on a means of escape?

If someone could advise that would be much appreciated.

Many thanks, Allison

 

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

The main issue is that a standard intumescent air transfer grille will not restrict the spread of cold smoke. Also, installation of such a device should be done by a competent person so as to ensure the door's fire integrity performance is not compromised.

If the door in question opens on to an escape route, there is a risk that cold smoke from inside (in a fire event) may impede persons attempting to use the escape route. Your fire risk assessment should note this and recommend action accordingly.