sounders in residential care homes

[Guest TYVM]

Hello, I have been told that in a residential care home with a addressable fire alarm each bedroom must have a sounder is this correct 

[Tom Sutton]

It all depends on the audibility test and if the sounder is required to wake the occupant from sleep then it has to achieve 75 dB at the bedhead, this may require you to fix the sounder in the room. (This is according to BS 5839 part 1:2013.)

[AnthonyB]

No. Most care homes operate progressive evacuation which is almost wholly staff led due to the physical and cognitive issues with residents and it's deemed detrimental to subject them to the high noise levels normally used in standard sleeping accommodation where guests would need to rouse and self evacuate, especially as many will remain in their rooms for some time exposed to the alarm.

As a result there is no need for bedroom sounders (except perhaps in guest and staff bedrooms) and indeed the audibility in service users bedrooms shouldn't/needn't exceed 45dB, the British Standard explicitly states this.

Whoever told you this needs to reeducate themselves and I hope they aren't involved in risk assessments in these premises!

[Guest Ewan Black]

On 26/11/2018 at 21:10, AnthonyB said:

No. Most care homes operate progressive evacuation which is almost wholly staff led due to the physical and cognitive issues with residents and it's deemed detrimental to subject them to the high noise levels normally used in standard sleeping accommodation where guests would need to rouse and self evacuate, especially as many will remain in their rooms for some time exposed to the alarm.

As a result there is no need for bedroom sounders (except perhaps in guest and staff bedrooms) and indeed the audibility in service users bedrooms shouldn't/needn't exceed 45dB, the British Standard explicitly states this.

Whoever told you this needs to reeducate themselves and I hope they aren't involved in risk assessments in these premises!

I'm struggling with this exact point. Where can I find the above information?

[AnthonyB]

The official DCLG Guide refers the RP to BS5839-1 for fire alarm systems which in Clause 16 Audible Alarm says "in hospitals and certain residential care premises in which occupants might need assistance to evacuate, the fire detection and fire alarm system might not be intended to rouse people from sleep, and it might only be necessary for staff to be aware of the alarm signal."

Therefore there is no need to achieve the 75dB bedhead (except to any staff quarters) and the last thing an immobile resident, who many not be being evacuated immediately anyway due to PHE and may have cognitive issues, needs is to be scared out of their wits alone in a room by a very loud siren with either no understanding of the situation or if they do understand the fear that they can't get themselves out, increased when no one comes for them for an extended period.

This is why the sector needs risk assessors with an understanding of healthcare and ideally an understanding of medical conditions and patient handling, to determine what is needed in a particular premises. In some registered care homes there will be no bedroom sounders and progressive evacuation, in others where the dynamic of the service users is different there need to be bedroom sounders and a simultaneous evacuation is used. The stereotypical image of care homes is very elderly physically and mentally disabled persons, but there are dozens, if not hundreds where the service users are far younger & self mobilising. There is no blanket approach hence the need for decent FRAs

[Tonyc8310]

On 26/09/2020 at 20:32, AnthonyB said:

The official DCLG Guide refers the RP to BS5839-1 for fire alarm systems which in Clause 16 Audible Alarm says "in hospitals and certain residential care premises in which occupants might need assistance to evacuate, the fire detection and fire alarm system might not be intended to rouse people from sleep, and it might only be necessary for staff to be aware of the alarm signal."

Therefore there is no need to achieve the 75dB bedhead (except to any staff quarters) and the last thing an immobile resident, who many not be being evacuated immediately anyway due to PHE and may have cognitive issues, needs is to be scared out of their wits alone in a room by a very loud siren with either no understanding of the situation or if they do understand the fear that they can't get themselves out, increased when no one comes for them for an extended period.

This is why the sector needs risk assessors with an understanding of healthcare and ideally an understanding of medical conditions and patient handling, to determine what is needed in a particular premises. In some registered care homes there will be no bedroom sounders and progressive evacuation, in others where the dynamic of the service users is different there need to be bedroom sounders and a simultaneous evacuation is used. The stereotypical image of care homes is very elderly physically and mentally disabled persons, but there are dozens, if not hundreds where the service users are far younger & self mobilising. There is no blanket approach hence the need for decent FRAs

This is really interesting,

I have a couple of new care homes being built and have just reviewed the latest sounder plan that averages 84db in residents rooms. The fire strategy produced by the designer wasn't helpful. They do not really have the ability to differentiate between a retirement home and a residential care home, where a larger residents will change their mobility & mental awareness over the time of their stay. I guess they take the blanket approach of higher db level as per normal bedhead/sleeping person without looking at how most care homes are managed and trained in PHE strategy.

[AnthonyB]

Unless it's unassisted independent evacuation with simultaneous evacuation this is wrong & dangerous. I think specialist fire safety input is required urgently to prevent an expensive error!

[Guest Esther]

So what will be the requirement for a 3 and 5 bedroom house intended for supported living and semi independent living for young people.

No physical disability and relatively  independent.

[AnthonyB]

That's really one for your fire risk assessment however from the guidance for Specialised Housing it says:

 

The extent of automatic fire detection should comply with the recommendations of BS 5839-6 for a Category LD1 system (which is the highest category for protection of
life in domestic premises). Smoke detectors should be provided in all circulation spaces, and in all rooms within the property, other than kitchens, toilets, shower rooms and
bathrooms. In kitchens, heat detection should be provided. However, where a kitchen or dining room forms an inner room accessed only from the lounge, the detector in the inner room may be omitted (rendering the system Category as LD2).

No fire detection need be provided in toilets, shower rooms and bathrooms or, normally, in cupboards. There will normally be no need for fire detection within roof voids, unless there are specific, significant fire hazards within a roof void, such as gas boilers or electrical equipment for photovoltaic systems. All smoke detectors within
circulation spaces, or areas into which kitchens open, should be of the optical type; alternatively, appropriate multi-sensor detectors may be used.

In single storey premises and other premises with no more than four bedrooms (including staff bedrooms), fire detection may comprise a Grade D system, as defined in BS 5839-6: 2013 (i.e. the detectors may comprise mains-operated domestic smoke alarms with internal standby batteries or capacitors). All smoke alarms should be interlinked by either wiring or radio transmission, so that, when fire is detected by one smoke alarm, all smoke alarms in the property sound simultaneously. Unless there isat least one member of staff present (whether awake or asleep) on a 24-hour basis, the standby batteries should be tamper proof (e.g. cells soldered to a printed circuit board, capacitors or PP3-type batteries that are fixed in place and cannot readily be removed).
In premises of two or more storeys with more than four bedrooms (including staff bedrooms), domestic smoke alarms should not normally be regarded as adequate. The fire detection in these premises should comprise a Grade A system, as defined in BS 5839-6, with control and indicating equipment sited within the ground floor circulation space, fire detectors and fire alarm sounders. Where there is, at any time, less than two members of staff on duty, either the system should be addressable or there should be remote indicator lamps outside the entrance door to each resident’s accommodation, so that the location of a fire can be quickly identified. However, if existing premises of not more than two storeys are provided with sufficient mains-operated smoke alarms (with standby batteries or capacitors), these need not be replaced with a Grade A system until the smoke alarms reach the end of their useful life.

[Guest Petersteaf]

Since I will be doing a loft cavity inspection not in the SW on Monday this sure is interesting. Any more details on exactly what they did wrong?