are these exits too close?

[jonnyseka]

hi there

we are currently  in the process of building a bar in an industrial unit and i'm trying do work out where to place things. would option 2(the second pic0 meet fire regs? both doors would be 870mm wide and open out into a private outdoor area. (the orange opening would be  870 wide and wouldn't have a door)

other info - the unit is 15m deep and 8 meters wide,

[AnthonyB]

Assuming travel distances are OK the two exits would have to meet the 45 degree rule where if they are closer than 45 degrees apart they are counted as a single door. 

However as your plan shows the exits separated by construction then as long as the partition was full height to 30 minutes fire resistance you could count them as two exits for escape capacity purposes

 

 

 

[Tom Sutton]

I agree count the two exits for escape capacity purposes, but I think it would be single travel direction, from the bar end to the opening to the toilets, then you could count it as an alternate, when calculating the travel distances.

Check out Approved Document B (fire Safety) volume 2: Premises other than Dwelling Houses

[jonnyseka]

14 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

Assuming travel distances are OK the two exits would have to meet the 45 degree rule where if they are closer than 45 degrees apart they are counted as a single door. 

However as your plan shows the exits separated by construction then as long as the partition was full height to 30 minutes fire resistance you could count them as two exits for escape capacity purposes

 

 

 

thanks for the info , in both your opinions if i go for option 2 and  have the orange opening  in the second picture   would I be better to  have a door or just leave it as an opening

[Tom Sutton]

I cannot see any difference to having a door or not as far as fire safety is concerned but you may require it for other reasons check it out with the building inspector. 

[Guest PHIL]

Does the 45degree rule count for final exit doors along the same wall?

[AnthonyB]

Yes as fire & smoke behaviour doesn't change regardless of if it's doors in an internal wall or ones in an external wall.

[Lyledunn]

You wouldn’t get past BC here. 15x8=120m2 resulting in an occupant capacity of 240 persons using the generally accepted 1 person per 0.5m2 for a bar. An 870 door will give 110 persons. Given that you have to discount one exit, you are beat! Absolutely no way would it be permitted that you manage numbers on a new build or change of use situation. I am in NI by the way.