Separation between floors in service risers

[st1]

When undertaking a fire risk assessment would you recommend fire stopping (at all floor levels in a multi store residential building) within the service risers even if the service riser itself was constructed to provide 60 minutes protection.  I know this sounds like a belt and braces approach but I hear this often from fire officers in that what they want to see, although I appreciate they can sometimes be incorrect in their approach.

[AnthonyB]

No, as Building Regulations is quite clear that you can build risers as a protected shaft without floor separation. It's a horrendously expensive thing to retrofit if done properly and so isn't a simple nice to have so if it isn't needed, don't do it!

Some FRS forget it's not fire certification anymore and they can't ask for anything specific anymore. They can highlight they believe there is a breach of one of the articles of the Fire Safety Order and require that it be resolved (or otherwise disproven) either by formal or informal means and if necessary prosecute if there remains a risk to relevant persons due to inaction or unsatisfactory action by the RP but that is all. They can of course suggest a possible solution (they do not have to though and I've seen some enforcement notices that don't) but it is not binding - the RP can propose a different solution or why they believe no action is necessary and if it's reasonable the fire service have to accept it or the case can go to determination or court.

 

[Guest Mike]

Do riser cupboards in communal areas need auto closers on or is it relied on these being always locked?

[AnthonyB]

If they are kept locked shut and signed as such then they are excused self closers. If they are in such regular use or a use where locking is impractical (too many different people need access, such as a riser cupboard with a dozen flat's meters in) then a self closer may be more appropriate.

[Guest DFSC32]

Reading A.D.B 2019 (2020/ 2021) It states the following " 

Protected shafts should be used for the following only, but may also include sanitary accommodation and washrooms.

1. Stairs.

2. Lifts.

3. Escalators.

4. Chutes.

5. Ducts.

6. Pipes.

7. Additional provisions apply for both of the following.

   1. Protected shafts that are protected stairways: Sections 2 to 4.

   2. Stairs that are also firefighting stairs: Section 15. "

 

Therefore, my understanding water/ gas cupboards don't need to be fire rated however electrical cupboards do. Assuming this to do with likely hood of fire. 

Be happy for anyone to provide any proof which conflicts this?

P.S - Sorry im late to the party. hoping this will help someone in the future. 🙂 

[Lyledunn]

Eh? What means would you use to route electrical services through compartment floors to avoid sealing at each floor if not in a protected shaft? 

[Mike North]

Protected shafts

8.6  Stairs and service shafts connecting compartments should be protected to restrict the spread of  fire between the compartments. These are called protected shafts. Walls or floors surrounding a protected shaft are considered to be compartment walls or compartment floors.

[Guest Dave]

Do water mains cupboards/shafts in residential buildings require fire stopping at ceiling and floor?

[Rex]

On 13/07/2018 at 20:21, AnthonyB said:

No, as Building Regulations is quite clear that you can build risers as a protected shaft without floor separation. It's a horrendously expensive thing to retrofit if done properly and so isn't a simple nice to have so if it isn't needed, don't do it!

Some FRS forget it's not fire certification anymore and they can't ask for anything specific anymore. They can highlight they believe there is a breach of one of the articles of the Fire Safety Order and require that it be resolved (or otherwise disproven) either by formal or informal means and if necessary prosecute if there remains a risk to relevant persons due to inaction or unsatisfactory action by the RP but that is all. They can of course suggest a possible solution (they do not have to though and I've seen some enforcement notices that don't) but it is not binding - the RP can propose a different solution or why they believe no action is necessary and if it's reasonable the fire service have to accept it or the case can go to determination or court.

 

If a shaft does have floor separation, does there need to be fire compartmentation of the shaft walls on each level? I can't find a paragraph number in Approved Document B that explains the answer.

[AnthonyB]

You've asked this in another post - remember if you are talking about an existing building ADB isn't relevant as that's for new building design and significant alterations - the Fire Safety in Purpose Built Flats guide is more suitable