can non-certified doors be fire doors?

[Guest TeeKay]

Dear fire door experts ...

I live in a block of flats and someone is trying to persuade us that all the flat's front doors need replacing, but I'm not convinced.

The block was purpose built in 1985 with 6 floors and 20 flats. It has a single stairwell, and on each floor there are two fire doors separating the stairwell from the landing.  On each landing there are either 3 or 4 flats and AOV windows.  I mentioned the AOV windows and the layout only because the impression I get is the block was built with consideration for fire safety.  All the staircase and front doors are original. All the front doors have concealed door closers and a 1" door stop.  In fact all the internal flat doors also have concealed door closers and a 1" door stop

The argument given for changing the front doors is that they are not 44mm thick, there is no certification marking on them and they don't have 3 hinges.

However, I measured the front doors with a vernier caliper and they are actually 43.2mm. And, as it happens they are exactly the same thickness and door type as the fire doors to the stairwell. The only difference is the stairwell doors have an overhead closer.

The existing front doors are good quality solid veneered doors that have lasted 30 years and I expect were half hour fire rated when they were fitted in 1985. But, I can't prove it!

I don't want to just change the doors and door frames because they are missing the certification and a hinge.  Incidentally the last fire safety assessment in 2017 was happy with the doors so, I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether you think the door sets should be replaced?

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Sutton]

The 44mm width of the door, 1 inch stops on older doors and as fire doors are usually much heavier, then need to have three hinges, are indications that the door in question is a fire door, which is not foolproof. The protected staircase and the ventilation, would indicate the design used some form of fire safety guidance but for instance CP3 code of practice, but it didn't require front doors to be 30 mins fire doors. What would not be accepted today is the concealed door closers on the front door, they do not meet the required standards. (except one)

You could get a fire door assessor to check the doors http://fdis.co.uk/ however Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats is the guidance for your block of flats, you should study it to see if it helps your case.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Hi Teekay,

You have clearly given this matter some thought and consideration..............more thought then many building owners/managers have. You are right to do so, I have encountered similar situations where doors older than the 1980's have been found to be suitable fire doors. 

From what you say there is a good possibility that the fire doors at the building are suitable but may require some degree of upgrading works. As Tom says contacting a certificated fire door inspector CertFDI would help you evaluate the situation. These are listed at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector and my advice is to speak to two or three to see what their thoughts are before engaging the one that seems most suited to the task. 

[Guest Barbara]

Hi,

I would like to get an information regarding external fire door.

Some time ago I have exchanged my flat door. The work was carried out by a carpenter and I was left with no certification. Now the management company is asking if the front door is FD30 compliant and if I am able to supply them with compliance certificate.

Would you please advise what are my option? Do I need to purchase a new FD30 door with clear marks on it? Or can the existing one be certified ?
Barbara

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Hi Barbara,

Contact a certificated fire door inspector. These are listed at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector 

The inspector should be able to inspect the fire door and issue a report either confirming compliance or detailing remedial works required in order for the door to be compliant. Speak with two or three to make sure they can provide what you are looking for. 

[Fouted]

On 3/31/2018 at 21:10, Neil Ashdown CertFDI said:

Hi Barbara,

Contact a certificated fire door inspector. These are listed at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector 

The inspector should be able to inspect the fire door and issue a report either confirming compliance or detailing remedial works required in order for the door to be compliant. Speak with two or three to make sure they can provide what you are looking for. 

thanks a lot for answer as i was looking for the same, Neil, but, please dont get me wrong and generally I'm sorry for asking BUT... you said to speak with 2 or 3 to make sure.. i mean, aren't they all working under the same standards? one might agree and the other one might not? thanks!

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Hi Fouted,

No need to be sorry, competence is most important.   Speak with two or three because although all FDIS qualified they work independently on their own account and will have varying industry backgrounds from fire safety generally to joinery or ironmongery specifically, and that knowledge and experience will be a factor too in engaging the best person for the particular task at hand.   Tell the inspector exactly what you are looking for and ask him how he can help.