Ground Lifts on fire alarm activation

[Guest Newbie James]

I have in the past recommended lifts in mid rise block of student accommodation with a L2 alarm system to be interfaced with the alarm so it returns to the ground floor on fire alarm activativation. It there anywhere in the guidance documents or regs back up this or it is just best practice I have picked up from somewhere?

[AnthonyB]

Lift control fire alarm interfaces are required in the BS EN for lifts, but it's never been a specific requirement in most fire safety guidance, just a very useful extra.

[Tom Sutton]

Fire fighting lifts must conform to EN 81, which included the lift car must return to Fire Service Access Level and park with doors open. I guess it has come from that and as AB as said "a very useful extra" for standard lifts.

[Guest Newbie James]

Thank you both.  What would  you say to a lift contractor that says interfacing the lift with the alarm for it to be grounded is a just a recommendation not a requirement. My thoughts were student building, 3 storey, upto 40 students ==> therefore grounding would be very useful.

[AnthonyB]

It's a requirement if your fire risk assessment deems it necessary..... 

[Guest BCO]

BS 999:2008

10.4.2.1 Control systems and control rooms

The sophistication of the fire alarm system and public address

arrangements should be taken into account when establishing

which evacuation procedures might be possible in large or complex

buildings.

Control systems should be designed such that:

• all sound systems which do not perform safety functions,

including temporary ones, are silenced in the event of fire;

• passenger lifts are brought immediately to the designated exit

level, and kept there during the fire emergency (see Annex G for

evacuation lifts and 21.3.4 for fire-fighting lifts);

• urgent information is clearly

[AnthonyB]

That's for new builds or refurbs and where Approved Document B is not being used. BS9999 is NOT a risk assessment guide, is NOT a legal requirement and is NOT retrospective. The law is quite clear that all provisions are risk based.

Far too many practitioners spend other peoples money by getting RP's to put stuff in that is not legally required as it's easier than actually assessing the risk and giving RP's an informed choice.

Would it be nice if every lift was upgraded to include fire alarm interfacing? Yes

Does it actually need to be done? No, not across the board for existing buildings.

When was the last time in the UK when there was a fatality or even a near miss from someone using a lift in a fire?

Never seen it done in 20 years of evacuation drills either, except where managed use of the lift was part of an evacuation plan.

[Guest Glasgow Cockney]

Slightly connected to this topic....

If you have a double-knock system on a fire alarm, should the lifts 'ground' at the first-knock, stopping them being used to investigate the alarm, or at the second knock?

Grateful for any comments / thoughts?

[AnthonyB]

Entirely down to the premises and it's risk assessment. It's possible to justify leaving them active during the investigation phase, especially as in all but the smallest buildings you won't have time to investigate before any delay trips over to stage 2 if you don't have a lift.