Fire insulation for flats?

[crl]

I live in a small block of flats owned by a housing association. The block comprises of four flats, two flats upstairs and two flats on the ground level, there is also a communal stairs and passageway.

My question is that it appears that there is no fire insulation between the ground floor flats and the upstairs flats, just wooden floorboards with a small cavity between for pipes etc. Is there a legal requirement to have some form of fire insulation between different levels?

[Tom Sutton]

Timber joists with floor boards on the top and a plastered ceiling below could achieve 30/60 minutes fire resistance depending on the materials used which should be sufficient to escape from a fire.

[crl]

I have had conflicting updates of my concern from the Fire Services.

One officer said that if there are no concrete floors a double layer of plaster board is then required on the ceilings and butted and skimmed.  Another officer stated that the only areas that come that come under the remit of the Fire Safety Order are the common areas and there are no regulations for the apartments themselves.  This I believe is so wrong especially in a complex with elderly aged tenants.

Please could you clarify which officer is correct?

[Tom Sutton]

Assuming your flats are purpose built flats and meet the standards of Approved Document B (fire Safety) volume 2: Premises other than Dwelling Houses then there will be 30 minutes separation between the first floor flats and the ground floor flats. One layer skimmed will give you 30 mins and two layers skimmed will give you 60 mins but as the first floor is less than 5 metres above the ground floor it only requires 30 mins. The whole building including the flats are subject to the Housing Act and the Building Regulations but the commons areas are subject to the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

[Guest Kevin]

Hi Tim I live in a block of flats 5 floors which has a roof void.There appears to be  only floorboards and what appears to be standard insulation not well laid on the floor.Should this be raised as a concern and what would give the floor the fire resistance in the loft if it cant be completed at the block of flats ceiling?

[Tom Sutton]

The combination of the ceiling below and the floor above, various fire resistant standards can be achieved, starting with 30 minutes which is likely to be what is required in your situation. The insulation is for heat retention and is likely to be fibreglass which is fire retardant. Always worth checking with the Responsible Person.

[Guest Chris Cas]

Buying lower ground flat what fire protection does it need ? it has no record of building regulations carried out when staircase to the 3 story house above was removed 

[Tom Sutton]

Does your front door lead direct to outside and how do the people upstairs get to their accommodation if the staircase has been removed?

[Guest Guest Craig]

Interesting topic, we're currently developing a converted apartment that was converted in 1985. As it has an ornate ceiling it has some form of fire protection sprayed in-between the ornate ceiling and the floor above.

We've had to take down a section on double boarded ceiling and are planning on doing the same again-double boarding with 12mm plasterboard, taped and skimmed with some sound insulation wool above that.  The apartment is ground floor (with two stories above) with it's own front door leading to outside.

[Tom Sutton]

Are you just making a comment or do you have a question.

[Guest Craig]

Sorry Tom, possibly didn't word that correctly. My main concern is that it is "fire safe" and how the was achieved in the 80s when it was converted. There is a section that appears to have zero fire protection, this is the part I'm building  bulkhead over and double boarding/skimming with plaster to give fire protection.

Ideally the design would have a kitchen extractor fan built into this bulk head but as the extractor fan unit (something like this https://elica.com/GB-en/hoods/ceiling/illusion ) doesn't provide any fire resistance it wouldn't pass.

Building Control offered a simple no when approached.

[Tom Sutton]

Couldn't the vent be located to vent to outside even if trunking has to be used. 

[Guest StellaB]

Hello Tom,

I have a traditional 1900 end terrace former corner shop property that I am in the process of requesting planning permission to divide into three separate dwellings, if I read correctly above, if less than 5 meters from ground to first floor then a plaster skim, joists and floorboards should provide 30-60 minutes of fire escape time?

There is a 2nd floor with 1 small room, given that room would be more than 5 meters from the ground, would just the area directly under need more fire proofing or does that change the dynamics of it all?

Thanks so much in advance x

[Tom Sutton]

You will be subject to the building regulations therefore it will be up to how BC Inspector interprets appendix A 2. It could be argued that the building is above 5 M therefore all floors have to be 60 mins FR or as you interprets it 30 mins for first floor/ 60 mins for second floor.

Also how you achieve the necessary FR there are a number of ways and he/she may require a more onerous method.

Check out 

Approved Document B (Fire Safety) Vol 2

[Guest James Bishop]

I am doing some work on a block of flats and double fire boarded every ceiling I am just checking do I need to double board the ceilings in the  the loft area because there is no one living above ? 

[AnthonyB]

Usually for lofts instead of fire resistant ceilings below you continue all the fire rated walls below up to roof eaves level:

 

[Guest Danny]

Wonder if anyone can tell me what is needed . I have a flat above a 1850s shop . The shop ceiling hasbeen removed to expose my wooden josts and floorboards . Id like to keep them exposed as the craftmanship looks fantastic . I wanted to paint them in a fire retardant paint . Will this meet fire regs ? 
thanks 

Danny 

[AnthonyB]

Not unless the correct product is chosen and applied in the correct way, it's not a magic substance. You will find suitable products and a source of specific advice here:
https://envirograf.com/

[Guest Troy]

I live in a small block of flats. 

We have opened an SVP cavity and seen that there is fireboard fitted to the flat upstairs floor boards but none to our ceiling leaving a cavity exposed between our ceiling and the floor above. The same is on the SVP in other areas. My question is, is this as per regulation and is there anything that could prove that the way this is done correct?

It is to my understanding a fireboard or a fire collar should be fixed around the SVP at the floorboard level to the flat above and another to our ceiling in the flat. The same goes for the flat below. This protecting the cavity between for potential exposure, delaying or reducing the spread of fire through our ceiling?

[AnthonyB]

If the pipework penetrates through a fire stopped floor then it should indeed be correctly firestopped.

[Guest HVQ]

Hello

Question for you.  I own a flat, formerly a Victorian Hospital.   When it was converted to flats the ceiling was lowered a foot.  There is plasterboard, a foot of space then another level of plasterboard that hold my spotlights.  
 

I would like to raise the ceilings to the original height.  I just want to make sure I’m not contravening fire regulations or any other law fir that matter.  
 

Am I correct in saying that so long as I double up the plasterboard on the currently higher plasterboard, this satisfy the requirements?

 

thanks!  

[AnthonyB]

This work may require Building Control approval in which case they would advise.

However, in principle, if you are maintaining the correct thickness and layering of the correct plasterboard, suitably fixed, it should be OK

[Guest Afyo]

Hi I need some advice as to best way to carry out this problem 

Basically I have shiop nd above that there are flats so when fire inspector came and he said I need to make it 30 mins fire resistant but the problem is I got suspended ceiling is there ny way I can do it from above like plywood the floors or something like that don't want to rip the suspended ceiling off thanx much appreciated 

[AnthonyB]

There are fire resistant suspended ceilings, but I would suspect your existing grid wouldn't be adequate so you couldn't just change the tiles.

Plywood wouldn't be much use and you need really to protect the risk side, i,e, the underneath. It doesn't matter what goes on top if the structural floor underneath collapses due to fire damage.

It's common to underdraw the ceiling with two layers of 12.5mm plasterboard and most solutions require the false ceiling to come down to put into place.

You are best using experts for this - search for Passive Fire Protection contractors.

[Guest DCRB]

Do i need 60 minute fire separation from ground floor garage and first floor flats? do i need to install 60 minute rated plasterboard to achieve this?