Flat fire door for private entrance

[Guest Sean1993]

Hi there I hope you can help. 

I live in a ground floor flat that also has a back door. 

I have changed the back door without any problems but my front door (which leads into a communal entrance) no company actually wants to fit. 

I am struggling to find a reason beyond companies (both local and big names) blaming grenfell. Can anybody advise me please? 

Thankyou :) 

[AnthonyB]

As long as the front door is going to be part of a FD30s fire resistant door set there should be no problems in finding someone to fit it.

If you are wanting to fit a non fire door I can understand no one wanting to be involved.

Plenty of specialist fire door installers out there if you are stuck.

[Guest Alison]

Hi I’ve just purchased a maisonette over ground and first floor part of which is over a shop (the building is detached) I have my own front door to outside and there are no other flat/maisonette attached to us.  Firstly Do I need a fire door on the main entrance and secondly my stairs of the entrance hall downstairs lead up to my kitchen and lounge which is open plan do I have to have a first Door at the top of the stairs.

 

[Guest G.Campbell]

Hello

I live in a maisonette (the style which basically looks like a house from the outside but has 2 separate front doors one for my flat upstairs and the neighbour downstairs) the council have said that my front door needs to be replaced by a fire door. However it opens onto fresh air. As I am in the corner of a cul de sac it opens onto a shared path which then leads onto a communal pathway to exit the cul de sac.  In such situation with the update of the regulations do I need a fire door as my front door?

Thank you for your help in advance 

[AnthonyB]

Not really - if you were directly into the street you wouldn't expect it. The only slight possibility is if the only route of escape passes your door and you can't be more than a meter from it but that normally applies to balcony access on the upper floors of larger blocks.

I'd ask for full details on where this comes from.....

[Guest Kev B]

I’ve just purchased an upstairs flat of a house converted (upstairs & downstairs flats) the letting agent said as the lounge door has 3 hinges fitted it may have been a fire door but isn’t now. Should this be replaced with a fire door? It’s a self contained flat with the front door opening onto the street. 

[Tom Sutton]

You need to ascertain if it is a fire door, there should have been a fire risk assessment, check with the Responsible Person (usually the freeholder) and get his view.

[Guest Lisa]

Hi, I have a flat on the 2nd floor and we have a communial front door, a company have advised i need a new FD30 front door but they have also said it can be an internal door off solid core as this is not the main door to the building.  They have quoted for the sashlock and deadlocks, is this correct?

[Tom Sutton]

I do not understand the layout, are you changing the front door of you flat or the staircase?

[Guest Heidi]

I live in a flat on the third floor, along an open-air walkway. There are enclosed exits at either end of the building and an open-air exit in the middle. None of my neighbours have fire doors but every door company I contact tells me they don’t know if I need one or not. I really hope not because of the huge cost. Advice would be greatly appreciated please!

[AnthonyB]

If there are two directions of escape along the walkway so you wouldn't have to walk past a flat on fire to reach the stair you should be OK with a normal door.

[Guest BarryG]

I like the previous question live on the 2nd floor of a small block of 9 flats and I have been told along with the other residents that our front doors need changing at a cost of £1500 each by June 2023. My door is an original fire door from when the flats were built about 40 years ago - is this correct?

[AnthonyB]

Possibly not - the new draft guidance retains the option for smaller blocks to keep or upgrade older fire doors, although modern self closers are likely to be required in any case.

[Guest Robert (loughton)]

Hi tom,  this basically answered a question i had about my flat.  The council are claiming my front door has to be replaced with a firedoor with a self clising arm. 

Problem is im in a wheelchair (paraplegic)  and i wont be able to open the door easily from inside especially and from outside. 

In fact i would argue a door that closes itself and creates the need for greater leverage to open actually makesbmy front door a potential trap for me.  Where do i stand here?  (excuse the pun!)  have i any safety legal standpoints i can use to avoid this chamge. 

I live in a madonette , ground floor of a 2 story(3 level)  set of flats.  My front door opens to the street.  Not a shared common area.  In fact its the main road.  Thanks in advance

[AnthonyB]

If it's just a door to the public highway then the Council are taking rubbish as there never was and still isn't such a requirement.

[Guest Deno]

If door exits flat onto open walkway (to external air) but passes one flat on way to stair then does it need to be a Fire Door? This is the end flat in the block on first floor. Concrete walkway with brick upstand to external edge of walkway, open to elements - Thoughts from others please

Needs new door & frame but opening only 890mm & looking for composite ideally.

[AnthonyB]

The face of the building (excluding window openings) should provide at least 30mins fire resistance and window openings should not extend below a height of 1100 mm above the deck level.  Surface materials of the facing wall, balcony soffit and balustrade should be of Class 0 rating.  

The idea is that if fire escapes the flat through the window, occupants needing to pass by the flat can crawl beneath and hopefully escape.

If entrance to each flat is afforded via external balcony / deck approach  you need to check the width (less than 2m in width is fine).  There is a risk of smoke logging if the balcony / deck above is more than 2m.

The requirement is for the doors to be FD30 level 

If its the furthest flat from the stair this may be relaxed.

[Guest Barry]

Hi. I live in a ground floor flat and have had my front door changed for a fire door 6 years ago.

The problem now is that since Grenfil the doors are being inspected by the maintenance people of the flats.

They are now saying my fire door needs work the self closing hinges need to be changed for a self closer and the door needs to be lifted as the gap at the top is too big and they cant use packing. They are asking 250 pounds for this work.

Does this work need to be done as the door was fitted before the new regulations. Can i fit a packing piece to the top of the door myself.

The fire depot inspect the flat every year and had no problems.

Thanks Barry.

[AnthonyB]

Yes, as this was a requirement before Grenfell. The block owner now has absolute not implied legal responsibility for assessing the suitability of flat front doors and where they don't meet government guidance can be considered automatically in breach of the legislation when the Fire Safety Act.

Rising butt hinges have not been accepted since 2011 in guidance and so it would be correct to replace.

I don't know who the Fire Depot are, but as the fire service don't enforce fire safety in flats nor generally have the resources to check individual flats annually through their Community Safety checks (which is done by staff who specialise in domestic fire prevention and not the general block regulations) but just because they don't raise an issue doesn't mean the need to change is wrong.

[Guest Guest Ron]

I have a ground floor flat with two exit doors at the front, one leading from my kitchen and one from my hallway and both leading into a porch area of upvc and glass with a upvc and glass door leading to the open air. The porch area was built on some years after the flats were built. I also have a patio sliding door from my living room into a communal garden. I am a leaseholder and my landlord has notified me after having a fire risk assessment carried out by a private contractor that I must now change both my front doors and the whole porch construction for fire doors and fire resistant material for my porch or have a heat alarm system installed in all three flats The two flats above me, on two stories, one on each story, have exits doors directly above me and are accessed by a concrete stairway. There is effectively a concrete access to the flat directly above my two exits doors and similarly between the first floor and second floor flat doors.A fire alarm specialist I contacted believes that I do not need to change my doors and patio and says the  advice given in the assessment is incorrect and I should get the advice of the local Fire Service which I am now waiting for.  

[Tom Sutton]

From your description it is difficuly to understand the layout you need a physical inspection by an expert and I would wait for the report from the Fire Service.

[Guest John]

I live in a block of flats on the third floor.  There is access to an external fire escape stairs along the corridor.  However, it concerns me that the door to the external fire escape has a lock and key, and is often used by another flat owner to enter the block of flats.  i.e. they walk up the external fire escape and unlock what I was told was the fire door.  Can this be possible ? (doesn't seem very safe), or should the door be a fire escape door or fire door without a lock ?  Is there any legislation that i could refer the managing agents to about this please ? Thank you

[AnthonyB]

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

"....(f) emergency doors must not be so locked or fastened that they cannot be easily and immediately opened by any person who may require to use them in an emergency;...."

 

[Guest John p]

I live in a ground floor maisonette with communal front door and also stairway leading to a basement, should the landlord have fire doors for both front doors of the flats and also fireproofing on basement ceiling? Considering we only have original floor boards and can see basement below? Also kitchen is between living room and bedroom which has access to garden 

[AnthonyB]

Quite possibly. What is the fire detection & alarm provision?