Why do I need a door closer?

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Hi timbo,

To achieve compliance the self-closer you install must be to minimum power-size 3 to BS EN 1154.  Select a self-closer that has power adjustment up to size 4 or 5 with adjustment for both closing speed from fully open to almost closed as well separate adjustment for the latching action.

This type of self-closer, correctly adjusted, will close the door correctly overcoming any latch bolt resistance and close quickly enough to satisfy your requirements.

[AnthonyB]

They can be adjusted, they should generally shut the door within 10 seconds in any case.

[Guest LondonMan]

Hi, a little self close door advice needed please!

I live in a flat in a converted Victorian townhouse which has three dwellings. The two upstairs flats are accessed by means of an external staircase to the first floor, then an external door to a small hallway containing the two internal private doors to the two flats (the third flat has their own door on the ground floor).

This external door has never had a self door closer in the 16 years I've been here and the freeholder (who happens to live downstairs) decided to install a self door closer on this external door without informing or asking either leaseholder. Neither leaseholder for either of the upstairs flats asked for or wanted the freeholder to install this device.

Is it law that it needs to be there? Am I within my rights to ask him to remove it

Thanks

[AnthonyB]

Unless that external door needs to be a fire door to protect an adjacent external escape route it doesn't need a self closer.

[Guest Mary B]

Hi

I live in a first floor flat in a retirement block. The front door has a self closer, but until recently the carpet was causing the door to stick. The house manager has now insisted on shaving the bottom of the door, with the result that the door now has a considerable gap underneath. In fact, at night you can see the landing light around all three sides of the door. So if there is a fire, smoke can still enter the flat around the edges of the door. In fact two of my neighbours smoke heavily, the corridor is always smoky, and the smell gets into my flat. I know the regulations are all about door closers and don't actually cover gaps round the door which allow smoke to enter, but is there anything that can be done about this? I've spoken to the house manager, but he just shrugs and says there's nothing he can do.  He is only concerned about regulations, not about actual health and safety.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Hi Mary B,

There is indeed a requirement to take measures to restrict the amount of smoke that can pass under or around a fire door. Failure to do so is a breach of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

If the fire door leaf has been trimmed at its bottom edge so that the gap between the bottom of the door leaf and the threshold is more than 3mm then the threshold strip on the floor will have to be increased in height accordingly.   Alternatively a maximum gap of 10mm is allowed but a smoke seal must be fitted to the bottom of the door leaf to fill the gap.

The fire door should also, of course, have effective cold-smoke seals to seal the gap between the door leaf and the door frame at the top edge and both vertical edges. Guidance is available in BS 9991 Fire safety in the design, management and use of residential buildings Code of practice and BS8214 Timber-based fire door assemblies. Code of practice. Also more information can be found at www.ifsa.org.uk 

You should inform the House Manager without delay.

[Guest Mary B]

On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 19:02, Neil Ashdown CertFDI said:

Hi Mary B,

There is indeed a requirement to take measures to restrict the amount of smoke that can pass under or around a fire door. Failure to do so is a breach of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

If the fire door leaf has been trimmed at its bottom edge so that the gap between the bottom of the door leaf and the threshold is more than 3mm then the threshold strip on the floor will have to be increased in height accordingly.   Alternatively a maximum gap of 10mm is allowed but a smoke seal must be fitted to the bottom of the door leaf to fill the gap.

The fire door should also, of course, have effective cold-smoke seals to seal the gap between the door leaf and the door frame at the top edge and both vertical edges. Guidance is available in BS 9991 Fire safety in the design, management and use of residential buildings Code of practice and BS8214 Timber-based fire door assemblies. Code of practice. Also more information can be found at www.ifsa.org.uk 

You should inform the House Manager without delay.

Thank you so much, that is so helpful. I'll do that right away.

[Guest ConcernedMum]

Hi there, I’ve just signed a tenancy for a council property which is a ground floor maisonette (2 up, 2 down) and all the doors are really heavy with door closers.

When I questioned this, they told me all doors must be shut at all times. And I think this is both morally wrong and incorrect, I know at places of work, some doors must always be closed - but ones in our own homes??

The hallway is extremely dark if the living room and the bedroom upstairs is closed. 

I have a 7 year old and a 4 year old who cannot open the doors as they are too heavy.

Where would I stand in removing these as if there was ever an event where there is a fire and the children cannot get out, or if I was really ill or I died, how would my children escape or find help? 

[Harry]

Hi 

A technical solution would be to install what is called a 'Free-swing door closer' . These allow a fire door to open and close without any resistance from a normal door closer, however, should there be a fire, the door closer function is activated and the door closes, protecting you from fire in corridors etc.

Harry

 

 

[Tom Sutton]

All the fire safety guidance I am aware of says self closers are not required in domestic premises except the front door if it opens into an enclosed common area. The heavy doors are most probable, fire doors and well fitting substantial doors should remain. Consequently not all the doors need self closers according to fire safety guidance but it all depends on your lease agreement and there you need solicitors advice, because if you breach that you could be evicted.

Check out Approved Document B (fire Safety) volume 2: Premises other than Dwelling Houses appendix B fire doors. (2.)

[AnthonyB]

Depending on the age of the maisonette the closers may date back to the original build as it used to be a requirement to have them but was dropped as they were often removed or the door propped. A propped self closing door is likely to be always left open, a non self closing door has a better chance of being shut at night. 

[Guest Self closures on doors]

HI

I am in dispute with the LHA. My son and I own a conversion of two 1 bedroom flats which are for our use. There is a small 5 meter communal lobby and we each have our front doors at the end - i.e. the door to our dwelling. We are being forced to fit self closures. Is this obligatory as they are not external doors? Both happened to be fire doors but there is a restriction for a self closure which they are insisting on. The Carpenter has said it would not work as the doors would not open properly and suggested a concealed on but they are refusing this. Surely it does not matter what kind of self closure is used - if any?

[AnthonyB]

Doors to the outside don't need self closers, internal doors often do. Those inside the flats don't anymore, but the front doors into internal common areas do and have done for a very long time - if your conversion is of a former house it may have been done not in compliance with Building Regulations if they have never been fitted.

Concealed closers are allowed if to BSEN 1154 & correctly installed - whilst most aren't it is possible to get ones that are.

[Guest David Barwood]

Hi Tom,

Would it be appropriate to fit a Freeswing electro-magnetic type of door closer to a new front door to a flat?

The elderly tenant finds the new self closing fire door fitted restricts access and egress to the property. 

This problem is not uncommon and I`m trying to find a solution as new FD30 front doors are being fitted in sheltered schemes for the elderly but the frail elderly residents

cannot manage them.

Thanks,

David Barwood

[AnthonyB]

In theory no, but the closer would need to be linked to automatic fire detection each side of the door in line with the locations stated in BS7273-4

[Guest Self Closures]

Hi Anthony. You replied to me on the 19th July and I am still going on and on the the LHA. Back to the self closures. I read that BSen1154 self closures are a requirement for Commercial properties only not domestic like ours. Our conversion is a 1 up 1 down - 2 one bedroom flats only. Which concealed ones can we put in that are not expensive? thanks Virginia

[Tom Sutton]

Have you considered Cam Action Door Closers check out https://doorsolutionsdirect.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=10.

[Guest Rye]

I have a rental property with an internal sliding door, its not a fire door. So is it OK to leave it?

[Mike North]

All depends if a fire door is needed