Why do I need a door closer?

[Guest]

A self contain flat in any building is not subject to the Fire Safety Order, all the doors, other than the front door leading to the common area, do not require a FD30s door with self closer and therefore would not need a hold open devices. The front door of a flat leading to the common area usually require a fire resisting door with a self closer and it is not wise to to keep it open unless absolutely necessary.

Is this true for a flat that is on the 15th floor of a block of flats? All the doors in the flat except the bathroom have self closers. So would it be ok for me to take off all the self closers on the internal doors except the front door that leads to a common area?

[Tom Sutton]

As far as the Fire Safety Order is concerned, YES, fire safety in the flat other than the front door is the responsibility of the tenant/landlord and it does not fall within the jurisdiction of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. However according to Approved Document Part B Fire Safety vol 2 it depends on the layout of the flat, use of rooms and the travel distances involved and being in contravention of this may involve a breach of the Housing Act.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Tom Sutton

[Tom Sutton]

My statement above is a little clinical and to the best of my knowledge is correct but you should also consider the safety of yourself and your family. The flat was most probably designed according to the ADB which would mean if there was a fire everybody should be able to escape safely but if you choose to change things you may jeopardise the safety of your family so I would advise to leave things as they are however ADB does not require self closers on internal flat doors other than the front door.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Tom Sutton

[Guest]

Thank You Tom.

 

[J]

Hello

We recently acquired a house in Wales which we intend to let as a holiday home it has a loft conversion which was completed and got building regs approval about 7 years ago. When it was done the doors on all of the rooms off of the staircase which are fire doors were fitted with perko style door closers. Can I remove them or do they need to be retained.?

[Tom Sutton]

They need to be retained, why do you think you can remove them especially if you are considering renting the premises?

[J]

The previous owners of the property have removed a couple of them and the remaining ones have either been damaged or damaged the frames due to the doors been wedged open. When I was sourcing new ones from the local builder’s merchants I was told you no longer have to install them to fire doors when you do a loft conversion so long as you install linked smoke alarms to all floors, which we have.

The main reason I would like not to have to replace them is the risk of kids or getting their fingers caught by the doors as they close. But if they have to stay they have to stay.

[Guest]

Hi, I own a building which was built as a house but has been used for offices for many years. I obtained planning permission to change the use back to a dwelling house. The building has the feel of a house and the alterations required are minimal but I do have to reinstate a partition wall in the ground floor hallway which is at the bottom of stairs that lead to the upper parts. There are three upper floors with a fire escape on the top floor. The partition will separate the ground floor lounge from the hallway and stairs.

I envisage a reinstated partition on the ground floor, with double glazed doors which open onto the lounge and i want to give the impression of openness and light as soon as one enters the building through the front door and the truth is I would like to have the double doors left open, if compatible with regulations.

My questions are:

Is it compulsory to have door closer mechanisms on the new double doors in the new partition wall?

Can they be glazed doors?

Do the doors have to be fire rated?

Do I have to get a building regs official to check out the doors once installed?

Many thanks for your help on this.

[Tom Sutton]

The previous owners of the property have removed a couple of them and the remaining ones have either been damaged or damaged the frames due to the doors been wedged open. When I was sourcing new ones from the local builder’s merchants I was told you no longer have to install them to fire doors when you do a loft conversion so long as you install linked smoke alarms to all floors, which we have.

The main reason I would like not to have to replace them is the risk of kids or getting their fingers caught by the doors as they close. But if they have to stay they have to stay.

What type of building are we discussing is a single private domestic dwelling, purpose built flats, or a converted house into flats they all use different guidance. If the main problem is the risk of kids or getting their fingers caught by the doors as they close then you could consider cam action, or swing free self closers.

[Tom Sutton]

Hi, I own a building which was built as a house but has been used for offices for many years. I obtained planning permission to change the use back to a dwelling house. The building has the feel of a house and the alterations required are minimal but I do have to reinstate a partition wall in the ground floor hallway which is at the bottom of stairs that lead to the upper parts. There are three upper floors with a fire escape on the top floor. The partition will separate the ground floor lounge from the hallway and stairs.

I envisage a reinstated partition on the ground floor, with double glazed doors which open onto the lounge and i want to give the impression of openness and light as soon as one enters the building through the front door and the truth is I would like to have the double doors left open, if compatible with regulations.

My questions are:

Is it compulsory to have door closer mechanisms on the new double doors in the new partition wall?

Can they be glazed doors?

Do the doors have to be fire rated?

Do I have to get a building regs official to check out the doors once installed?

Many thanks for your help on this.

A similar question to the above what type of building are we discussing is a single private domestic dwelling or converting a house into flats they use different guidance. The only question I can answer is, you may need building regulation approval but before you do anything not after, check it out with the local building control.

[AnthonyB]

Hi, I own a building which was built as a house but has been used for offices for many years. I obtained planning permission to change the use back to a dwelling house. The building has the feel of a house and the alterations required are minimal but I do have to reinstate a partition wall in the ground floor hallway which is at the bottom of stairs that lead to the upper parts. There are three upper floors with a fire escape on the top floor. The partition will separate the ground floor lounge from the hallway and stairs.

I envisage a reinstated partition on the ground floor, with double glazed doors which open onto the lounge and i want to give the impression of openness and light as soon as one enters the building through the front door and the truth is I would like to have the double doors left open, if compatible with regulations.

My questions are:

Is it compulsory to have door closer mechanisms on the new double doors in the new partition wall?

Can they be glazed doors?

Do the doors have to be fire rated?

Do I have to get a building regs official to check out the doors once installed?

Many thanks for your help on this.

This sounds very much like 'building works' for the purposes of the Building Regulations and so there should be a plans submission to Building Control.

 

[Guest Janet]

Hi I have been advised that I need to fit door closers on all the internal office doors at my doctors surgery. I know the reg says all external (fire doors). but do the doc rooms and office doors need them ???

 

[Tom Sutton]

If fire doors are required then self closer would be required but without a survey or detailed plans it is impossible to say which doors need to be fire resistant doors. In most situations a lot fewer than people think.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Tom Sutton

[AnthonyB]

External final exits don't always have to have self closers.

Internal doors may if protecting escape or enclosing an area of high risk (the doors need to be the appropriate grade of fire door as well, it's not just fitting closers!)

Not all doors may need this, a decent FRA will specify which and should specify why (so you shouldn't need to be asking the question!)

[Guest Carrie.]

Can I ask in a house of multiple occupancy , what if you have no door to kitchen or door from dining room to upstairs . Should I get in touch with agent or local safety officer. It is a student house which is rented by 3 students. Loads of problems including rats. Nightmare for me as a mum not living nearby.

[Guest trevor duffus]

I live in a purpose built flat that has four units in my section, with two upstairs and two down stairs.  

The flats have no back doors and we only have a front entry (communal door), which has no lock or self closing device. The question is: is this legal for the freeholder to ignore?

[Tom Sutton]

It is not necessarily a HMO, but even so, it is most probably is subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, and consequently you could contact the enforcing authority (local Fire and Rescue Service) or the agent and give him time to sort the place out. As it sounds dangerous, you possible should contact the FRS immediately and then the agent if you choose. Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/uk-fire-rescue-services-details/ .

[Guest Mark]

Hi Tom sorry for digging up an old thread but I am having trouble finding an answer to this and hoped you might be able to give your opinion.

We bought a house last year, 4 bed detached no office use or tenants etc, just my family living in it.

We've been renovating it, removing doors and reprinting frames etc.  We noted that two of the doors in the house are FD30 Fire doorsets, with Perko self closers.  One is the door in the utility room that leads to the integral garage, the other is on the cupboard (full size door) upstairs which contains the boiler and hot water tank.

The house was built circa 1990.

My question is can either or both of the self closers be removed as part of the renovation?

I appreciate they are there for a reason, but t the internal cupboard upstairs in particular is quite a hazard considering we havev2 small children.  We are installing a complete new smoke and heat alarm system, fully linked.

We are having the boiler replaced soon and our plumber had advised that there is no requirement for the door to be self closing, but we are still unsure.

If you or anyone else can give an opinion on where we might stand with regard to the current regs and insurance perspective it really would be hugely appreciated.

 

 

[Tom Sutton]

Approved Document Part B Fire Safety volume 2 says in the first page that self-closing devices are not required to be fitted to fire doors except the fire door between an attached or integral garage, also check out page 64. You do not require a self-closing device on the fire  door to the boiler cupboard but you do th the fire door to the integral garage.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/485420/BR_PDF_AD_B1_2013.pdf

[Tom Sutton]

In addition to the previous posting I would also add that all self-closing devices should conform to BS EN 1154:1997 Building Hardware – Controlled Door Closing Devices. I far as I am aware only one perko self-closing device the perko powermatic meets this criteria.   

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/perko-powermatic-concealed-door-closer/

[Guest Si123456]

Dear safe-lincs

whos responsibility is it to have a flats front door that is fd30 with door closer, the owner of the flat or the freeholder of the communal areas?

[Tom Sutton]

I am assuming the flat owner is not a freeholder therefore the owners/freeholders of the building, as Responsible Persons, are responsible that all doors opening on to the communal areas meet the required standards. However any tenancy agreements should dictate who pays and how, usually through the service charge.

[Guest John Smith]

Hello Tom,

It looks like you are very competent about fire doors and regulations.

I'm after a regulation about fire door closures.

I am having an old fire door to the kitchen, which is supplied with a very old door closure.

The door closure is same a bicycle chain and the mechanism is inside the frame probably.

The problem is that the door is closing with force and is very high risk of cutting fingers off or the door hitting your head by exiting the kitchen.

Is it there any regulation, that saying that the door closures must be supplied with a kind of a stopper?

Something which helping the door to close smoothly and gently with the last few inches?

Or in other words, preventing the door of clashing with force with the frame?

 

Your assistance will be appreciated.

 

Regards,

John Smith

[Tom Sutton]

In a private domestic dwelling you do not need self closers only if you have a fire door between the house and an integral garage. The self closer you have is not suitable for fire doors anyway they need to conform to BS EN 1154 : 1997 and the perko type closer you have does not meet that standard. 

[Guest timbo]

we need to put closers on our flat front doors in our conversion. Do closures allow you to shut quickly or are they slow which will be a pain.