Who pays for fire risk assessment in rented nursery?

[Guest RShei]

I am in the process of buy a children nursery and have tenants who will manage it. I needed advice on who should pay for and be responsible for it.

regards

Riz

[Tom Sutton]

The employer is the responsible Person (RP) under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 so if the tenants are running the nursery as a business they are the RP but you could be responsible for certain items depending on the tenants agreement and who has control. Who pays will be subject to the tenant's agreement but I would imagine fire safety items that will become a permanent feature and under your control would be at your cost, fire safety items that could be removed would be the tenants. For example the fire alarm which could not be taken if they vacate the premises but the testing/maintenance could be at their cost through the rent.

[AnthonyB]

If you are leasing it as an FRI lease or some similar set up then as the tenant will be both the employer and person having control of the premises then it's all down to them.

In a single occupancy commercial letting the landlord usually has no fire safety responsibilities unless they've a particularly poorly drawn up lease.

[Guest Austin]

On 7/6/2015 at 8:37 PM, Tom Sutton said:

The employer is the responsible Person (RP) under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 so if the tenants are running the nursery as a business they are the RP but you could be responsible for certain items depending on the tenants agreement and who has control. Who pays will be subject to the tenant's agreement but I would imagine fire safety items that will become a permanent feature and under your control would be at your cost, fire safety items that could be removed would be the tenants. For example the fire alarm which could not be taken if they vacate the premises but the testing/maintenance could be at their cost through the rent.

I personally feel as I look after a village hall both parties are liable to have there own risk assessment as the risks will be slightly different for a standard building and a nursery school. There really should be no difference weather its a business or not, as your providing a service and im sure Ofsted will want to see your own risk assessment. 

If you understand common sense you should be able to do the risk assessment yourself and not employ someone to do it, as all its about is looking at current practices and processes identifying the risks and thinking is there a safer way to do it. In the case of fire ensuring the three items (Heat, Oxygen and Fuel) of the fire triangle do not come into contact and ensuring that they are kept apart and therefore the risk is reduced and your protecting people from danger or death. Such as installing alarms to alert people of the danger or extinguishers to aid people with escaping a building. 

[Tom Sutton]

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 is the relevant legislation and article 3 defines who the Responsible Person is, consequently if that person or persons has control they have to implement articles 8 to 22 nobody else. This includes article 9 which require a fire risk assessment to be conducted by the RP and a competent person to assist the RP if required.

The FRA must take account of all the different uses the premises is used for and reducing or preventing the spread of fire is only part of the FRA.  If it is a business then the employer will be the RP or it could be the owner or the person running it on behalf of the owner, so the first thing is to decide who the RP is.

If there are certain article under the control of another person then they are responsible for that article or joint responsibility.

Without knowing the full details of a premises and the occupier it is very difficult to give a definitive answer I have to make assumptions.

Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/regulatory-reform-fire-safety-order-2005/ for more information.

http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-risk-assessment/

[James@WhiteRose]

It all depends on what is written in the lease.

If it states it is the responsibility of the Landlord it is down to them to ensure everything is in order, if not the responsibility lays with you as the responsible person.  It can also be a combination of the 2 both yourself and the landlord.

It is important that you are clear with exactly who is responsible.

That been said even if the Landlord has taken responsibility that will normally cover FRA's, Fire fighting equipment & alarms etc.

The training of your staff and ensuring everyone inc. visitors knows exactly what to do in the event of a fire will normally be down to yourself as the responsible person.

[AnthonyB]

Regardless of your lease as an employer you are responsible for carrying out the Fire Risk Assessment and ensuring that suitable protective and preventative measures are in place.

Owners (Landlords) are mainly detailed in the regulations so that empty premises can be covered and are only usually responsible for internal common areas as a person having control.

If your FRA details an improvement is required in something that you genuinely have no control over then you need to coordinate with the responsible person (in your case the landlord) who does and in turn they should cooperate - this doesn't mean they automatically have to pay for it (e.g. a building with a communal fire alarm system that say has a perfectly compliant Category M fire alarm system then you move in and require detection added to your area because of wqay you lay it out and use it. The landlord has to cooperate and facilitate the additions to the system, but you would usually be expected to pay as it's your demise, you are paying rent and the change is purely for relevant persons in your workplace)

If you are a sole occupant of a leasehold premises you will be liable for everything related to fire safety unless you have a poorly advised landlord - most decent leases in this situation leave the landlord as purely collecting rent and perhaps dealing with external areas such as landscaping, car parks and sometimes roofs)

[Tom Sutton]

8 hours ago, James@WhiteRose said:

It all depends on what is written in the lease.

It is not, it is what is written in  Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (RR(FS)O) and the person or persons defined as the Responsible Person (RP) has the duty to implement articles 8 to 23, ( FRA's, which covers Firefighting equipment & alarms etc.) Other people can take on certain duties but the RP still has full responsibility. Article 3 defines the RP and article 5 details the duties.

In commercial premises the lease could clarify if the landlord has chosen the take on any of the duties as defined by the RR(FS)O but the overall responsibility is still borne by the RP.