When selling flat, do I need a fire risk assessment?

[Guest Hannah Munro]

Hi Tom 

hope you can help. Like a few others in the group we are selling our flat and have had a request for an fRA. We are shared owners of the freehold with two other flats in a Victorian conversion. We had a fire risk assessment completed in 2015. Do we need a new one or will this suffice? 
 

we do not have a management company or employ anybody. 
 

thanks Hannah

[AnthonyB]

Have there been any significant changes since 2015? If not it should suffice with a review appended  confirming that the premises are unchanged and any protective measures are still being maintained which you should be able to do yourselves

[Guest Stephanie]

Hi!

Sorry to resurrect this post yet again.

We are selling our flat and the solicitor has requested an FRA. The entrance to our flat is accessed via an external staircase which only leads to our front door and the front door of one other flat. All outside. Would we still require an FRA as the communal staircase is not internal? 

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[Tom Sutton]

You need to speak to the Responsible Person and find out if a FRA has been done also if it is recorded because not all FRA,s need to be recorded. Also the FRA covers the building not individual flats how many flats in the building.

[Guest London flats]

Hi 

I am also in the process of selling my flat. Its 4th floor (top level) in a purpose built block including ground floor. Two flats per floor opening directly onto a single staircase, no lobby doors or corridors and block entrance via a small entrance hall on the ground floor from street level. Building was built in 2001/2002 and has a manual opening smoke vent at the top of the stairwell to satisfy requirements at the time of build (manually operated handle to open). 

The mgmt company (RP) have just had a new FRA issued which has come back to say the blocks need AOVs fitted on smoke vents to comply with BS9991 and building regs. However, my understanding is AOVs systems were introduced in later building regulations after the flats were occupied.

Is the ‘Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats’ guidance still relevant for FRAs? The assessor is adamant that this work must be done to meet current standards and hasnt provided alternative options to mitigate. However, that guidance seems to tackle similar scenarios for flats of an older age/pre current building regs.

TIA

[AnthonyB]

BS9991 is not a risk assessment guide for existing buildings, but a design guide for new buildings that can be used in place of Approved Document B.

Building Regulations are not retrospective and if it complied when built is outside their scope if not being altered.

Save for the section on evacuation planning for vulnerable people the "Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats" guide remains current, being recently republished by the Home Office.

 

[Mike North]

BS 9991 only applies to new builds and material alterations to existing buildings; it is not retrospective.  Would he insist on the installation of AOVs in the Tower of London?

[Guest Elizabeth Davies]

Hi Tom,

I'm in the process of buying a flat in a new building and the developers have refused to issue a Fire Risk Assessment. They say they will issue one after completion happens.

I'm a bit tipped off about their refusal and I'd like to understand what are the potential risk associated with having the FRA after completion. Does this mean that if the building does not comply with current fire legislation the then owners will have to pay for the remedial work? Why would the developer refuse to issue a FRA prior to completion if this is a legal requirement?

Thanks for your assistance and regards

Elizabeth

[Guest Jo-A]

We are selling a flat which is one of 4 in a small block. The buyer's solicitor has demanded a fire risk assessment of the communal areas. I've looked up on the Internet but I'm still at a loss as to whether we really need to provide one. All 4 flats are individually owned and lived in by the owners. There are no tenants or landlords. 

Can anyone help please - in plain english??

Thank you.

[Guest Jo-A]

On 20/01/2015 at 22:42, Tom Sutton said:

The common areas of all blocks/buildings of flats require a fire risk assessment (FRA) and the Responsible Person (RP) or Persons are required to provide it. But not all FRA's need to be recorded this will depend on how the common areas of the building is managed, consequently there may not be a written FRA. If your building does not require a written FRA how can you give it to the solicitor. I need more information on the extent of your ownership and the freehold because the owner/freeholder of the common areas has to employ five or more persons to be required to have a written FRA.

 

Hi Tom

Who would be the Responsible Person when there are 4 flats owned individually and lived in by the owners, no tenants involved. Thank you very much. 

[Tom Sutton]

The freeholder would be the Responsible Person if you all share the freehold then you share the duties of the RP.

[Guest MELK0R87]

I'm selling a ground floor flat along with the freeholder and my buyers solicitors have asked for an fra report. The house only has 2 floors and a small communal hallway that allows access to my flat and to the stairs to their flat. 

Do I need to provide any report? I don't want to have to get one done because if I do it'll fail for pedantic reasons like not having a self closing door. The upstairs landlord won't pay out for this and it'll be months before anything would get done. 

Can I say I don't have to provide one because we as freeholders don't employ more than 5 people?

[Guest Dan]

Hi Tom, 

I live in a leasehold flat in a converted townhouse consisting of 3 flats. We're about to exchange on the flat and solicitor has asked for a FRA. We've had this carried out for the common areas and there are a list of recommendations to be done by the freeholder (within a month according to the company who did the FRA). 

My question is, can the exchange still go ahead from a legal standpoint without the recommendations being carried out by the freeholder? We're under immense pressure from up our chain to exchange ASAP and we're not going to be able to remediate these these issues in time. I'm wondering if it will be a lender requirement that they must be carried out prior to exchange or we can have the freeholder write they will carry these out as soon as possible as to not hold up exchange. 

Any advice much appreciated!! 

Thank you!!

 

 

[AnthonyB]

It's up to the lender. If they feel their investment is potentially at risk they will not lend for fear of not getting their money and interest back. Different lenders will have different approaches.

[Guest Kelbel82]

Hi,

Wondering if you can help. I’m trying to sell my flat/apartment. It is one of 8 in the building. Each property has their own front door (3 doors at at the front of the property, 3 to the rear and 2 on the side). There are no communal/common areas for anyone. (Except for the outside garden). We have our own car park which is road level. 
As a group of owners we are our own landlords and have formed a LTD Company

The buyers solicitors are insisting on an FRA but do we need one? 
Also would we be exempt from an asbestos assessment?  

If we are exempt how do we convince the solicitor that these are not needed

 

Really need a reply urgently please!

thanks

[AnthonyB]

There are no internal areas requiring an FRA - are there external stairs and decks? If not then the only possible area that may require addressing is the external wall construction.

[zester]

On 30/10/2023 at 21:12, AnthonyB said:

There are no internal areas requiring an FRA - are there external stairs and decks? If not then the only possible area that may require addressing is the external wall construction.

So in a situation where there are 2 self contained flats each with a door opening onto an outdoor courtyard which forms a communal area which the tenants use to access their flats from the road is a Fire Risk Assessment needed?

[AnthonyB]

There is nothing to assess other than the external wall which would inevitably be low risk due to the small height of the property, it would be pointless to have an FRA as 99% of it would just say 'n/a' Some of the government guidance has said small sites like this are not intended to be subject to the full legal regime that would if there were areas in common. 

[Guest Sarahlynn]

Hello I am currently selling my garden flat. I have my own driveway and front door at the back of a Victorian House.. The 3 flats above have a separate entrance away from.mine and have a communal area. I obviously do not. Therefore do I need to provide a fire risk assessment certificate for my flat? Or for the whole 4 flats. I am the owner and  it's leasehold.  Thank you

[Guest Fire risk report]

I’m selling a flat with a communal area of less than 1 square metre, is a fire risk report still needed? 

[AnthonyB]

If it's in a block of 2 or more flats then yes - even if there were no common internal areas! It would be the building freeholder's responsibility.

[Guest Ann Marie]

Annmarie 

Hi Tom

i am currently trying to complete on the sale of my aunt’s ground floor 2bed flat, there is also a flat above her they both use the same door to enter their property 

we have been asked by the buyers solicitor to provide a FRA 

I have spoken with the freeholder and he said that my aunt is responsible 

we are also missing a few paragraphs from the lease which the buyers solicitor is asking for too

i live in Scotland so I’m struggling to understand a lot of this .

With thanks 

Ann Marie 

[AnthonyB]

8 hours ago, Guest Ann Marie said:

Annmarie 

Hi Tom

i am currently trying to complete on the sale of my aunt’s ground floor 2bed flat, there is also a flat above her they both use the same door to enter their property 

we have been asked by the buyers solicitor to provide a FRA 

I have spoken with the freeholder and he said that my aunt is responsible 

we are also missing a few paragraphs from the lease which the buyers solicitor is asking for too

i live in Scotland so I’m struggling to understand a lot of this .

With thanks 

Ann Marie 

The legislation affecting flats in England do not apply in Scotland, which has it's own legislation that exempts dwellings including any common areas from needing a FRA - the only duty is to maintain any fire service facilities (e.g. dry risers, etc)