Stay put policy

[Guest JohnLilly]

My wife and I live in a 48 flat Retirement Block managed by (removed). They insist that in the event of a Fire Alarm sounding that we stick to the Stay Put policy. I have many concerns regarding this which I can set out in writing.
Could you please advise me who I can set out my many concerns,for proper objective evaluation.

Many Thanks from John

[Tom Sutton]

First you must understand what Stay Put policy is, because it is quite often misunderstood. I believe it should be called Stay Put, if it is safe, policy my interpretation is you remain in your flat, if it is safe to do so, once you feel threatened by smoke or fire getting into your flat or if it enters your means of escape then evacuate, do not wait to be told, if you feel threatened, go.

Years ago there was no legislation for flats, other than the building regulations, and tenants evacuated when they felt it was necessary. In most situations the fire separation between flats was such that the fire was usually confined to one flat and most people remained in their flat quite often not knowing there had been a fire in the building. Today, providing there is sufficient fire separation, the same happens today and only a small number of tenants evacuate. As I have said, if you feel threatened, get out, better to be thought a fool than wake up next day dead. :mellow:

There is a guide for, Fire Safety in Purpose-Built blocks of Flats which should explain it more fully, if you use the find facility with the words stay put you will find all the reference to it.

If you still have concerns talk to your landlord or take it the enforcing authority who is the Fire and Rescue Service.

[Guest Sophie]

I work in a boarding school in the residential side and have been told if a child upstairs refuses to leave the building during a fire I am to use the stay put policy and remain with that child and the fire service will be directed to where we are first.....is this acceptable? 

[Tom Sutton]

It all depends if the construction of the residential side if a stay put policy is acceptable and even then certain residents may need to evacuate, dependent of the fire situation. If a stay put policy is adopted then all are subject to it and you cannot have full evacuation and a stay put policy combined therefore your suggestion is unacceptable.

In my experience there is few people that would remain, if there is a safe means of exit and a fire is licking their rear end, if this did happen I would use force.

[Guest Kate]

Hi. A fire officer upon audit has advised that our block of flats, which is built to withstand stay put (2008 construction, fire doors etc) but aslo has a fire siren sound in the event of a fire, is in conflict and we should remove the fire siren.

 

We feel uncomfortable doing this. Please can you point me to further advice?

[Tom Sutton]

How is the fire siren operated you need to give more information about the fire alarm.

[AnthonyB]

I assume it's yet another purpose built block with call points and sounders that weren't actually needed, the fire officer is correct and will be referring back to the current standards in Building Regulations and the Fire Safety guidance for Purpose Built flats.

[Tom Sutton]

As AB has said, the fire officer is correct according to the present day guidance, but myself I would be cautious and wait the outcome of the Grenfell Tower inquiry in case there is any changes to the regulations and guidance. If it is left it is not going to cause any major problems the occupants will know if there is a fire on the premises and they can still stay put or evacuate as they choose.

[Guest Mark Thompson]

Kate; The fire officer has given advice, because the building is designed to withstand fire and for a fire to burn out within a compartment/flat without affecting neighbouring flats. If everybody in every flat was to evacuate at the same time when the sounders activated you would have overcrowded staircases , confusion , possible trips and falls , obstruction of the fire crews trying to get into the building etc.

I suggest you have a residents meeting and make sure that everybody understands what a stay put policy is , invite the fire office to the meeting to put his points across. You might be able to keep your fire alarm if it gives you reassurance but people should not be expected to evacuate a perfectly safe flat and risk exposure to the elements and a long walk up and down the stairs for no good reason.

[Tom Sutton]

Mark not strictly true the building is designed to prevent a  fire in the flat of origin spreading to any other flat in the building for a minimum of 60 minutes, which should allow the fire and rescue service to get to the premises and extinguish the fire before anybody has to leave the building.

[Guest Mike (Wirral Fire)]

I really believe you should be careful with any advice without first visiting the development. I'm very surprised Tom you haven't mentioned how many floor levels are involved because if it's low rise (up,to 4 storeys) the overcrowded staircase is not a factor. Furthermore many new builds/conversions are designed with internal protected corridors within the flats which are supposed to form part of the minimum sixty minutes required to a common stairway. And we all know this ill thought out strategy falls down the day the residents move in.  

[Tom Sutton]

HI, Mike, I cannot visit any of the premises in the submissions, I base my submission on what they tell me and quite often explain I cannot give a definitive answer because I have not surveyed the premises.

I never mentioned the overcrowded staircase.

I would also disagree with "internal protected corridors within the flats which are supposed to form part of the minimum sixty minutes," as the flat themselves, do not enter the equation considering they are exempt from the RR(FS)O, the sixty minutes only involves the four external walls of the flat, floor, and ceiling. The front door has to meet FD30s standard and the fire would have to breach the door then breach the front door of the adjoining flat thereby achieving the 60 minutes.

[Guest Diane]

Hello, We are doing a fire drill tomorrow. we are a 3 storey blick of 33 flats,  2 stairwells one either side of the building. we will sound the alarm anyone who fells threatened will meet in the car park and others will either Stay in their flat due to poir mobility and othets will go to stairwells if they wish to. Should i be going back in the building to check on these who are staying in the building after we have done our check list of residents in car park, or should we give list to fire rescue when they come. 

[Tom Sutton]

It is a fire drill, so knowing how people react is important so there should be a number of people not involved in the drill (wearing a high viz coat) but checking what is happening so they can give a good report at the debrief, every body else should act if it was for real.

Remember this is not a legal requirement so anybody who chooses not to take part you have no legal powers.

[Guest Jane]

I live in a two storey sheltered block of 30 flats for over 60's.  We have a communal fire alarm system that has only one sounder in the entrance hall. I cannot hear the alarm from my flat. I am advised that the council has a stay put policy and so do not provide any sounders for the tenants. These flats have a communal Chubb alarm system.  Every flat is linked to the one above/below by an open duct that carries the wiring. This also carries smoke (and cooking smells, cigarette smoke) between flats. Should they have a stay put policy in this case and shouldn't tenants be able to hear the fire alarm and so make their own choice of staying put or getting out?

[AnthonyB]

It depends - if the block was constructed correctly for stay put and is still in good condition with no breaches of construction it would be OK - there are many things that could affect this though, the Fire Risk Assessment for the block should have checked this.

To be correct the individual smoke alarm systems in each flat should be linked to the Telecare (e.g. Tunstall) system to raise the alarm if a flat has an activation.