What certification is needed to be allowed to install fire doors?

[Steve F]

I own a flat  on the 2nd floor which is the top floor at the end of the corridor , each floor has 4 flats, so 12 in total, it was built in the 1970 concrete construction.  My problem is  last owner fitted a standard front door, not a fire door arguing that  being the last flat  nobody  would be passing the front door in the event of a fire, which  turns out to be incorrect , BIG TIME

So I have some  questions

1, can i get a internal FD30 fire door fitted to the front door of the flat or does it need to a external FD30, whats the difference?

2.  i have a professional chippy that has fitted many fire doors before, if he adheres to the door manufactures fitting instructions can i legally get him to fit it.I judge him as competent to do the job,   He has good knowledge of smoke strips etc.

3  the original fire doors in the other flats fitted in the 1970's don't have self closers fitted ,should they have ? now 

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Tom Sutton]

1. The major differences between external and internal doors are the style/width also external doors are usually fitted with weather boards. Most external exit doors do not need to be fire resistance and its location will decide if it requires to be fire resistance.

In your case you require a FD30s fire door, complete with an approved self closer, the width will depend on the degree of security you require.

2. The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 requires all work should be carried out by a competent person who is a person  who has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist in undertaking the preventive and protective measures. If you can prove, in the future, should you require to then you should be covered.

3. All doors opening into a protected route are required to be FD30s fire doors, fitted with approved self closing devices.

[Steve F]

Thank you for info  most helpful

 

[Guest Marcin]

Hello

I am an experienced carpenter and would like to know where can I go to get trained or get a qualifiction that will allow me to install fire doors

[Neil ashdown]

https://www.firedoorscomplete.com/fire-door-training

[Guest ElsieHG]

Hi Before Grenfell our double glazing installers successfully fitted compliant fire safety doors for a number of years and are all fully aware of the regulations governing installation. My question is now that fire doors have been retested and are now back on the market do our installers now need to be accredited or certified to install them or can we continue without as we have been advised both? 

[Neil ashdown]

There is currently no legal requirement for a fire door installer to possess a dedicated qualification or certification.  However, building operators must comply with the requirements of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. Articles 17 and 18 deal with maintenance and competence. 

[ElsieHG]

33 minutes ago, Neil ashdown said:

There is currently no legal requirement for a fire door installer to possess a dedicated qualification or certification.  However, building operators must comply with the requirements of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. Articles 17 and 18 deal with maintenance and competence. 

Thank you Neil

[Guest Magic]

Hi everyone, the only thing you need to install or work on a fire door, is to be Competent. this means either training, experience, qualification, knowledge. But understanding your limits, there is no need for third party accreditation.

 

Magic

[Guest Tony]

Hi Graham,

 

can a competent carpenter cut a hole in a fire rated door, for a fire rated letter box and it be ok under the regulations? 
 

Thanks,

Tony 

[Neil ashdown]

Depends what is permitted under the requirements of the door leaf manufacturers certification data sheet. Is this a new fire door leaf?   Or have you fabricated the door from a fire door blank?   Or are we talking about an existing fire door but with no evidence of fire performance?

[Guest Paul Rodgers]

Hi, hope that you can help. We live in small bock of private apartments and each of the thirty six leaseholders own the free hold. We run an in-house management company and have a board and appointed chairman. He has employed a general building maintenance company who have undertaken various repairs. We have had a fire safety inspection carried out and it was recommended that fire doors be fitted to replace the ones on the lower ground floor that give access to the waste bins. In fitting these the contractor has failed to seal the casing to the ceiling leaving a gap of some eight millimetres. The chairman has informed the residents not to question the contractor who, I believe, is incompetent. The work was carried some twelve months ago and no inspection of the work has been carried out since.

Which authority do I report this too. Any help would be gratefully received.

[AnthonyB]

As it is in the common parts, it would be the fire service who enforce any perceived sub standard fire safety works that leave a risk to relevant persons. 

[Guest Alan peters]

On 14/11/2013 at 11:37, Guest Neil Ashdown said:

Hi,

 

There are ways you can train your installers and schemes you can join to enable you to provide evidence of your competence. The Fire Safety Order defines a Competent Person as 'someone with sufficient training and experience, qualifications and knowledge to be able to implement fire safety measures (some or all) in a building'.

 

www.fdis.co.uk - The Fire Door Inspection Scheme provides on-line education for all who work with fire doors. There are two levels, the Diploma in Fire Doors and Certificated Fire Door Inspector.

 

www.firas-database.co.uk - FIRAS is a third party accredited installer scheme and they offer training to installers and periodic audits of member companies installation work.

 

If you don't require training but require a Competent Person to sign off your installation work you could appoint a CertFDI fire door inspector at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector

 

Regards, Neil.

Hi Neil , l hang fire doors, l would like to be able to certify the doors l hang ?

Regards, Alan 

[Neil ashdown]

If you would like some fire door installation training you could 'google' "Fire door training". There are a few providers that have websites.

Or if you don't require training, you could look at UKAS accredited third party certification schemes for fire door installation.

[Guest Keith Warwick40]

Hello,

My local authority required me to install a FD30S  at home in the block of flats where I live.

I am in property and asked my Joiner /Carpenter of some years experience  working on B1 Residential and other buildings, to install the door for me, under the Competent Persons Scheme as at the time 18 months ago, getting FD30s doors and someone to install them was not so easy to find. ,

He and his mate  installed the door following manufacturers guidelines using appropriate fire retardent  materials etc..he has done a few so knows the score. The council are asking for an installation certificate which of course he does not have.

What to do?

Is he required under the scheme to issue one he does not have or?

As i understood the scheme  if the person doing the installation has appropriate skills and can do the job and can demonstrate that then he is not required to register with any  body to be considered as a competent person. Is that correct.

I have offered to get a Third Party FD Installer certificate to confirm it meets with  requirements to the council but they say the people who sold me the door and installed it must issue an installation certificate. Which i think is wrong as that would be self certification and as far as i know it has to be ratified by a third party

 

Grateful for any help on this  especially as the authority in question  is RBKC responsible for Grenfell   incredible as that may seem coming from them

Keith

[Neil ashdown]

There is no legal requirement for the installer to provide a 'certificate of installation'.  If this is RBKC policy then you would expect that they would notify you accordingly ahead of the installation work.

[Guest Fire door installation]

Hi where can I find a competent tradesperson to fit an FD30s door with locks hinges and frame to the entrance of a flat 

[Rahel Lock]

Hi Safelincs offer a certified installation service carried out by qualified engineers. More information can be found here: https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-door-installation/

[Guest Matt J]

Hi all, we are joinery company who basically do house bashing and apartments from time to time, what certificate to we need to install fire doors in town houses and apartments. Thanks.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Whilst there is no mandatory requirement for certification, fire door installers should be competent persons. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/18/made

If you are interested in fire door installation training  https://www.firedoorscomplete.com/training-qualification