Can a fire exit be used as daily entry point?

[Guest Ben]

AnthonyB, we haven't submitted to building control yet. We are still in the process of assessing the options. Our Structural Engineer is currently unsure, or unwilling to commit to weather of not he thinks it is suitable.

 

Thank you for the response.

[Tom Sutton]

Without detailed information it is impossible to say, you need to detail your proposals and have a fire safety consultant to examine them. There are many things to take into account when designing a means of escape plus other items to ensure conformity to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

The final plans should be in accordance with the Building Regulations guidance.  

[Guest Holly]

Is it legal to put a security tags on every fire exit doors on every level of a department store leading to a stairwell to prevent staff from using it during trading hours.

[Tom Sutton]

Yes, providing the security tags do not prevent the doors from being easily opened and only indicates that some person has passed through the door.

Check out http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-exit-door-security-seal/

[Guest jane]

Hi. I work in a market. One of the fire exits is not visible unless you are stood directly in front of it. The stall that straddles the short corridor to the fire exit is so filled up with clothing that almost reaches the ceiling and encroaches into the aisle.  This creates a bottleneck that also extends down one of the aisles. The fire exit is not visible and there are no other signs to even show there is an exit there. The management don't want to deal with this trader as they say they will have to enforce pulling back into stall boundaries for all stallholders. I believe this is a fire risk as well as making it impossible for disabled people to manoeuvre.  I have had veiled threats from the management if I pursue this. Is there anything I can do? Not sure if folk will be able to get out in the event of a fire.

[Guest Question about fire escape]

Hi,  Just a quick question,  If a reception door has a fire escape sign above it and is on the plan as a fire escape should the door be locked out of normal working hours (normal 8am till 5pm) but we have had people in the yard doing 6 till 6 or 2pl till 10pm ?

 

thanks

Matt

[Tom Sutton]

If the premises was on fire do these people have to enter the building to escape from the fire in the premises or is there an alternative means of escape from the yard.

[AnthonyB]

On 2017-6-21 at 13:49, Guest jane said:

Hi. I work in a market. One of the fire exits is not visible unless you are stood directly in front of it. The stall that straddles the short corridor to the fire exit is so filled up with clothing that almost reaches the ceiling and encroaches into the aisle.  This creates a bottleneck that also extends down one of the aisles. The fire exit is not visible and there are no other signs to even show there is an exit there. The management don't want to deal with this trader as they say they will have to enforce pulling back into stall boundaries for all stallholders. I believe this is a fire risk as well as making it impossible for disabled people to manoeuvre.  I have had veiled threats from the management if I pursue this. Is there anything I can do? Not sure if folk will be able to get out in the event of a fire.

Invite your local fire safety enforcement officer down - they will resolve the issues for you.

[Tom Sutton]

Further to AB response the Local Fire and Rescue Service is the Enforcement Authority and can be contacted at http://www.firesafe.org.uk/uk-fire-rescue-services-details/.

[Guest Russ478]

Good morning,

I'm hoping you help me with a few points please?

The company I work for has several different units. These mostly have a standard entry door, with a normal handle, and an emergency exit at the back of the unit with a push bar. We have recently been audited by the fire brigade, who have advised us to install emergency lighting above the emergency exit. Would I also need to install these above the entrance door? And would you advise I change the handle to push pad/push bar?

Thanks in advance.

[Tom Sutton]

It all depends on the level of light, when you switch off all the normal lighting, preferably during the hours when natural light is the lowest in your premises, and  if the level of light enables you to find the door safely and able to travel along escape routes, then you do not need it, if you find any difficulties, you need emergency exit lighting.

Push pad/push bars are only required when large numbers, in excess of about 60 persons, which is generally is considered there may be a problem opening the door in an emergency. Most shops I go in, the latch on the main entrance doors are held open and all you have to do is push or pull  it to open, in that situation there is no problems, again if it is inward opening then the exit is limited to 60 persons.. 

[Guest Russ478]

Hi Tom,

That's perfect. Thanks very much for your insight, it's appreciated.

 

[Tom Sutton]

No prob

[Guest fire exit issues]

hi, i currently rent a unit for restoring classic cars, my friend has the next door unit as well, we rent and occupy the private enclosed yard as well, there is one more building which has been turned into a gym/marshall arts studio, there are 2 entrances at the front of the building ajoining the main street these entrances are used for the public to come and go from the studio. problem is there are 2 entrances at the rear (one is a loading bay with double doors approx 2 metres in width.  the occupier of the studio insists his fire exits are at the rear entrances which go into our yard full of cars, our yard is secured by surroundings houses and 7ft fences and walls, we have double gates that are 10 ft in height and are secured by 2 padlocks.  my question is according to what ive read up on, this is illegal as his fire exits lead into our private yard which cannot be acessed at any other time unless we are presently in the yard. plus in my opinion this is unsafe for the public to be in and also we dont want people in our yard when he has open access at the front of the building for safe fire exits leading to the main street. we are getting constantly annoyed to move cars away from his rear entrances when he has no business with our yard or any of its contents. any advice appreciated my landlord has actually supplied me with fencing materials to block off his rear entrances to our yard. we plan to give him 2 metres width with an access point for any large gym machines which have to come through our yard(we are perfectly happy with this as its on very rare occasions anything needs moved). thanks in advance

[AnthonyB]

If there isn't a legal agreement (wayleave, easement, means of escape license, lease clause, etc) to go across your yard for escape then you can stop their access, if there is then you are stuck unless there is a break clause.

[Tom Sutton]

Further to what AB has said, under The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 you are all, as Responsible Persons, required to conduct a Fire Risk Assessment, (FRA) for each occupancy. You all need to establish what exit doors are required, for means of escape purposes and any requiring access to the yard. All of you and the landlord need to co-operate and decide the best solution which also requires safe egress from the yard. 

Your solution could be acceptable but without a survey it is impossible to say. 

[Guest Lee]

Hi.

I work in a warehouse with numerous fire exits around the perimeter as well as a internal door which leads to the canteen, reception and office space. The internal door is used for day to day access to the warehouse.

My question is, can the internal door be used as a fire exit?

To exit to the outside of the building using the internal door would require going through an additional two doors from here. The nearest actual fire door is approximately 30m from this point which would lead you directly outside. To get to this fire door you would be walking parallel to the corridor that would be used if you had taken the internal door and both doors exit at roughly the same place.

Thanks,

Lee 

[Tom Sutton]

All doors are fire exit doors the ones around the perimeter are final exits doors if they lead to a place of ultimate safety. You simply take the shortest route to the outside depending on a number of conditions like the location of the fire, as you want to walk in the opposite direction of the fire. Fire exit signs are designed to show you the way to safety if the route is unfamiliar to you. 

You need to be aware of many conditions to design a means of escape  and without an intimate knowledge of the premises I could not advise you more fully.

[Guest Joe Brasill]

I work at the 5th floor of a restaurant. We have only one main entrance that links the courtyard to the fifth floor by the lift, plus some fire exit that links the fifth floor to the courtyard by stairs. Our line managers want the waiting staff and kitchen porters to take the emergency exit through the stairs carrying out the rubbish. Often the bins are heavy and their weight makes you walk slowly. Some people when carry the rubbish downstairs, because of the weight, they have to rest their hands a bit, put the rubbish down and then keep going down to the courtyard. I have observed the rubbish carried out by the kitchen porters can sometimes be broken and present a leaking of liquid and or pieces of food  throughtout the stairs, and the rubbish of the waiting staff can be sometimes full of empty bottles that could drop out of the bins. 

According to our line managers all this is not a hazard and therefore it's not a problem. I think that this is a hazard and that at the wrong moment (in an emergency situation) that can create problems. What the law says about it?

 

Thanks

 

 

[AnthonyB]

Sounds like it would make the stairs dangerous in any use, so  the Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974 and the The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 would have relevant application in addition to consideration of any fire safety breaches.

[Guest Joe Brasill]

If I understand it correctly the staff can legally pass through the stairs (fire exit) carrying sometimes heavy bins, from the 5th floor down to the courtyard as long as they don't leave things on the way'?

[AnthonyB]

It's not perfect but yes - is there any other way to empty the bins? If there is no goods life then it leaves the stairs.

[Guest Joe Brasill]

17 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

It's not perfect but yes - is there any other way to empty the bins? If there is no goods life then it leaves the stairs.

The other way I am aware of is to take the bins through the lift, but the GM doesn't want this anymore.

Not sure what do you mean by 'If there is no goods life then it leaves the stairs.'

[AnthonyB]

typo - Goods lifT

[Guest Grant]

Hi, My property backs onto a shop which has a fire escape door that opens onto my property and they use this as an normal exit from time to time. Meaning that they are crossing through my property and exiting through my gates onto the street. They argue that they have the right to do this. I am concerned about the security of them being on my property but don’t know if they have the right to use this or not.