Can a fire exit be used as daily entry point?

[Guest]

Mr.Sutton,

So my understanding reading your comments above is that a business owner is not required to get a planning permission to start using a fire exit as a second entrance to a high street store.

Thanks for your advice.

 

 

[Tom Sutton]

I do not know about the planning situation but as far as fire safety is concerned you can use a fire exit as a second entrance to a high street store providing you adopt the condition we raised.

[Guest Guest]

Good afternoon,

I have a bingo hall opposite my home and the staff are now using the fire exit as there smoking area, they have no cigarette bins. Am I able to stop the staff using the fire exit constantly for this?

your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Tom Sutton]

No, providing the do not block the exit in the case of a fire, they are doing nothing wrong as far as The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 is concerned.

[Guest Gordon]

I know that a fire exit can be used as a entrance for employees to come and go, but having security concerns when I leave the area that I am assigned too I put the latch on the Yale lock until I get back  this may be for five to ten minutes, and as you are aware that one only has to pull the Yale lock knob down to open the door. Is it illgal to put the lock on?

[Tom Sutton]

A fire exit needs to be available during the time the premises is occupied and the exit door can be locked but escape must be simple, without the need of a key, in the direction of escape.

What you are suggesting appears to stop people getting in from the outside but not preventing people on the inside getting out in the case of an emergency, consequently this would meet that criteria providing the knob is more like a lever than a knob. 

[Guest Emergency door always open]

On 20/11/2012 at 9:45 AM, Tom Sutton said:

 

Hi everyone.

My neighbour is a dry-clean shop, their back emergency door  which leads to a patio of 250 cm by 90 cm is open all the time. The edge of the emergency door when its open is 5 cm from my bedroom window. They have the emergency door open from 7 am (when they start work) till 8 pm (when they close). We can not ope the window until they close otherwise all the fume, smell of chemical  and heat gets into our bedroom. Can i ask them by law to keep the emergency door shut at all times unless there is an emergency?

Any information would be really appreciated.

Showan

 

[Tom Sutton]

There are no fire safety reasons that the emergency exit cannot be left open providing it is not blocked in anyway, most probably the situation is safer regarding fire safety.

[Guest Dear Tom Sutton]

I have a heavy work door to an tiny office with a printer. It has a sign saying fire door. Yet there is no escape from that room and occupants would not shelter there. Anyway what rules are there? We are asked to keep it shut at all time, not because it is a fire door, but due to security. Can the door be changed to a lighter door or does it have to be a heavy fire door? THe heavy fire door is going to give me muscle problems, this is why it is a problem for me. But I don't expect my employer to understand. They hate me. I need to get things from within the office throughout the day. Shelves could be moved outside they don't want to. as for them they enjoy seeing that I need to go through the heavy fire door to collect stuff.

[Guest Serena]

Dear Tom Sutton

I work in a library, for over two years the fire door does not need to be close. But for security not fire they have decided it should now be closed at all times. The door leads to a small office with a printer, (hence fire door). The door is extremely heavy, and I need to open this door to get things off shelves throughout the day, yet these items could be held on other shelves outside the library office. After one day my hand hurt from using the door. My main concerns are wear and tear. We have lockers but other staff don't use them, and other lockable cabinets.

[green-foam]

Sorry, but what exactly is your question?

[Tom Sutton]

The only question I can see is " Can the door be changed to a lighter door or does it have to be a heavy fire door"?

If the door is marked fire door then it is likely it will be required as a fire door, to find out you need to speak to the Responsible Person as defined by the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. 

If it is a fire door, then no it cannot be changed for a lighter door and although I accept fire doors are heavy they can be opened relatively easily, it’s the self-closer (S/C) which can make fire door more difficult to open.  

S/C can be incorrectly adjusted so the first thing is to have it checked and if it is still difficult to open, there are a number of self-closers and other devices that can help to solve the problem. 

a.      Free swing which allows the door to be open without the S/C having any effect until the fire alarm operates and the S/C changes from passive mode to active mode, closing the door.

b.      Cam Operated which allow the fire door to open relatively easily but is still effective in closing the door to maintain its fire resistance.

c.       Fire door retainers which keep the door open until the fire alarm operates and then allows the door to close. However this may not be acceptable for security reasons.

Another point to consider, is your work colleagues playing about with the adjustment of the self closer?

[Guest Library office door]

Basically I have hand pain after using the door for just one week. The door is heavy the handle at the wrong height. I also have muscle skeletal pain. but I am not in a wheel chair, so I don't count. right?

My question is the difference between, the outer main library door, is not actually a fire door. But the office one is, there is only a printer in there, and we are asked to open close it all day long. This is odd to me. In a kitchen swing door it is light and has no handle, as it is used all day long. Ours should be the same.

[Tom Sutton]

Some doors need to be FD30/60 fire doors some do not it all depends on the fire strategy for the premises and in most cases final exit doors do not need to be fire doors. You need to speak to your line manager and see if she/he can help and maybe a self closer I described above could be fitted.

[Guest External Access Door Issue]

Hi All,

Great forum and I'm hoping you can clarify a point for me.

I work in a small office block with 2 entrances, one to front and the other to the rear of the building.  Both on to separate car parks and are marked internally with correct signage and release mechanisms.  However on a recent ISO audit I was told the rear door needs to have a 'Fire Exit Keep Clear' sign fitted.  However, the rear door has a key clamp barrier fitted to stop vehicles reversing and blocking the door and maintains the escape route at all times and is classed as an access that is also a fire exit and not a fire exit.

The front door does not have any external signage fitted and I believe that neither need to as they are both access points and not solely fire exits.  Was the auditor correct or just being over zealous?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

[AnthonyB]

Best practice says to use the signs, but this we have a risk based provision regulatory system so if you can justify not signing you should be OK - if the routes have no realistic likelihood of obstruction due to lack of realising the exit is for emergency use what benefit does the signage bring?

[Tom Sutton]

All doors used to escape from a fire, are fire exit doors and the last door that leads to the outside are final exit doors. All doors in normal day to day use, do not need to be signed but any door were there may be doubt, where it leads should be signed. Any final fire exit doors on the outside of the building should be signed with 'Fire Exit Keep Clear' if there is a chance it could be blocked by a parked car or something similar.

I think they are being prescriptive and not as they should appling risk assessment principles.

[Guest Pub goer]

A pub in go in has two doors both open inwards and are fitted with a latch type opening device they are both marked up as fire escapes? one leads straight out onto a footpath 3ft wide then it's the road should this one have a barrier there? 

[Tom Sutton]

It's a risk assessment situation if you think there is a high risk of people escaping by that door could be forced into the road and hit by passing traffic, then you could need a barrier but the kerbside is not your property and it would be up to the local council, therefore you would have to convince them.

[Guest Chria]

We have a corridor in which we use for deliveries but is also a route for fire escape. This corridor is in use when a delivery comes in but the pallets are over to one side and a clear route to the exit is visible. Are there any legalities as to how long things can be left there as we have been told by higher sources we should be given a 12 hour grace to remove stock? The management of the premises have stubbornly said no and we have lost half if not more of the space we would normally use leaving us tight for space. 

[Tom Sutton]

The legal situation is there should be no obstructs in a mean of escape route see article 14 of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 but it is considered acceptable, subject to a fire risk assessment, to allow small obstructions that would not put occupants in danger. In this case it looks like the management of the premises is allowing a limited obstruction under strict rules.

[Guest Ben]

Hello,

Currently we are constructing a new internal mezzanine above an area that is currently fire regulation compliant. This is another area in a building. It has a ground level slightly lower than an adjacent area, however there are steps that lead up to the adjacent area and a fire door is in close proximity. We are wondering now, when we construct the new mezzanine, the current plans are to have a stair case underneath that leads up to the new mezzanine area, which, with the exception of that staircase shall be separate from the existing area below, which would be used for everyday access. Would we need to install another fire escape leading from the new mezzanine straight to the outside, or could we install a smaller set of stairs, that leads from the mezzanine in to the existing adjacent area and then people could escape a fire from there? 

[AnthonyB]

What did the Building Control Officer say to your plans submission for the mezzanine?

[Guest Claire]

Hi, my friend lives in a block of flats. To get to her front door and her neighbours you have to go through a fire door. Her neighbour is constantly wedging the door open with a push chair. Is this legal to do? 

[Tom Sutton]

Yes, Ask her to stop. if she refuses report her to the Responsible Person (Owner/Landlord or management company) If still having difficulties contact the enforcing Authority, the local Fire and Rescue Service.