Can a fire exit be used as daily entry point?

[AnthonyB]

There needs to be a legal easement, deed of variation or similar allowing them access and any necessary conditions (e.g. emergency use only).  You would usually find it in the premises legal pack along with the freehold/leasehold agreement.

If there is no written agreement you are entitled to secure your premises, but you should consult a specialist in property law as if they've enjoyed use of the route without being told they can't for a long historical period they can try and get the access formalised in court (Or so I've read in case law,but it's not my speciality). You could also grant them a formal easement in return for a reasonable admin fee,rent, etc.

[Guest ProblemFireExit]

 I am having to use a fire exit as a normal door, sometimes late at night, but I’m having awful trouble closing it again. It bounces open slightly before I can pull the bar up, and other people seem to have to slam it.   What can I do? Get a door closer?  Perform some sort of maintenance? I’d rather simple fix that doesn’t require the fitting of new equipment. I doubt I could get the property managers to fit a closer. 

[Tom Sutton]

Fitting a door closer would not help and be counterproductive it  appears the door needs to be maintained I am sure a good joiner could resolve the problem. 

[Guest Roger]

If you have more than 2 fire exits and you need to block one temporarily for less then an hour. Can you brief your team of the exit not operational and block it while you resolve an issue? Or do you need to evacuate everyone while you isolate the door. 

[Tom Sutton]

How many people are involved, how wide is the exits, what is the travel distance and are they true alternatives?

[Guest fire exit doors]

HI, can someone tell me if it is ok to use fire exit door to let suppliers in and out.   We were made to use this at the weekend to carry our casino tables down, the stairs were really dangerous but the hotel manager would not let us go out any other way.

[Tom Sutton]

Of course. All doors that can be used by occupants to escape outside from a fire are fire exit doors but those not in normal use, have appropriate signs showing that the door can be used to escape from a fire and are fitted with securing devices that can be easily opened during the time the premises are occupied.

Consequently  all doors can be used for either escaping from a fire or normal ingress or exit depending on the door furniture.

[Guest Graham]

I have two questions please

1.  In a small beauty salon, which has a maximum of 12 people a day in it, both exit doors open inwards, is that acceptable?

 

2. The place is single storey and has a treatment room at the end of a corridor, approximately 20 feet from the exit, does that need emergency lighting?

 

Thank you!

[Tom Sutton]

1. With less than sixty persons requiring means of escape, it is acceptable for fire exit doors to open inwards.

2. When the normal electric lighting switch off, how much borrowed light is there when the light outside is at its lowest, during the time the premises is occupied, is there sufficient borrowed light to find your way from the treatment room/corridor and safely escape to the fire exit doors, if there is then EL is not required.

[Guest Mickey b]

Hi,

I was reading all the issue and mine is not there I work in a club which has various fire doors. I am in  wheelchair the building is old and does not need to comply however the comitte have said there is a room quite big  that they are going to put in a disabled room which is nice, the issue i have is i cannot come in the front entrance 3 sets of 3 stairs hoever there is a Fire escape at the rear the door is kept open half the time then a debate starts and it gets shut  the boss says to me just phone when you are at the back door by mobile and i will come back and open the door for you which is nice to either i forget to bring my phone home it has no signal or my favorite i forget to charge it, I have told them they need to check if the back door fire escape which I can use just now that it is legal to make that as a disabled entrance along with the fire door dual purpose  that would solve the problem. Given what was said not sure if I would need a new door as not sure what size the fire and a disabled door would be. I also thought they would need a intercom but again lost as it was talking about similar but you could get a bolt but i guess that would be a special bolt to realse in the case of the fire alarm but thing just manually would be cheeper. It is a charity and money is scarce and every penny justifed. I am also not sure if we need planning permission to do this but i had said no use putting in a disabled entrence if you can't get access via  the fire escape first. Everybody seems to have a oppinion so I am not sure what is right and my boss is just trying to help me. Any infor would be nice. I stary in Scotland and not sure if the rules and regulations are the same. Sorry for the big story but would  welcome your advice and knowlege.

[Tom Sutton]

Scotland has its own fire safety legislation, building regulations and guides; despite that complication, you are asking for a fire risk assessment to deal with disabled persons and that would be impossible to conduct without a physical inspection or at least detailed plans showing escape route travel distances also any fire resistant construction. I would suggest you speak to the fire risk assessor that completed your initial FRA and ask him/her their opinions on your proposals.

You also need to understand the terminology check out  https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/policies/police-fire-rescue/fire/FireLaw and http://www.firesafetyfirst.co.uk/publications/Scotland - The Evacuation of Disabled Persons from Buildings.pdf

[Guest JAY]

Hi,

Im purchasing a pub where the entrance is on the side of the building. You have to go though a lobby to get to the pub.

The front of the pub has a fire exit and at the end of the room is a exit for wheel chair access with a ramp.

Ideally i would like the mane an entrance at the front of the building. Would it be possible for me to convert the fire exit to an entrance and change the disabled entry exit to a fire exit? 

The current fire exit does not have a step and is one one level so a wheel chair can easily go in and out with out assistance.

Appreciate any advice.

Many thanks

Jay

[Tom Sutton]

ALL exits from the building are fire exits and if in constant use do not need to be indicated with fire exit signs, those that are infrequently used should have a fire exit signs to indicate this is a route to ultimate safety. The means of securing the final exit doors will depend on the occupancy and the numbers likely to use them.  Which door you use as the main entrance is irrelevant and you should produce a drawing of your proposals to submit the Building Control, also to allow a Fire Risk Assessor to check out the means of escape.

[Guest Cjs]

Hi I live in block of flats and they have just changed all are communal doors , we have 3 exits on ground 2 entry doors each side with fobs to enter. Then one door at back of block that they now have push bar to exit so we no longer have key to enter it it's been made for exit only with push bar,  I was wondering if it should be used as daily exit by people due to it having push bar I thought doors with push bar should only be used in emergency  

[Guest Guest]

Hi,

Quick question that hopefully can be cleared up here!

I live in a flat in a converted factory, where the ‘main’ door is quite a way away whereas the fire escape (into a gated fob-access courtyard) is right next to my flat door. The management company keeps saying they’ll instruct landlords to evict anyone who leaves via the fire escape: what’s the legality of that? I feel like it’s not really enforceable but wanted to check. Let me know if you need any more info to clarify.

[Tom Sutton]

This will depend on your tenant's agreement or other contacts you have signed so it is not a fire safety matter but a legal one and you should seek advice from a property lawyer.

What is important that it is made clear that this would not apply in an emergency situation. 

[Guest Nichole]

I have an apartment in a huge hotel like building and I've always used the large fire escape to smoke and when Im late for work. The door to the fire escape us right outside my apartment door. The landlord told me he doesn't want people going up and down the fire escape because then somebody will get hurt and sue him so we were only allowed to smoke out there now recently he said we he doesn't want us going out there to smoke either so he doesn't want us out there. There's an entrance not too far off from there that I could go out and smoke but it's right at the front of the building, and the building has a bit of a reputation  I don't want to stand out front there where everyone on the  main road can see me. For The only other back exit you have to go down like five hallways and like three sets of stairs, its very far.  What are the guidelines on something like this? Is it legally at the owners discretion, do I need to abide by his wishes?

[Tom Sutton]

As I have said above this will depend on your tenant's agreement or other contacts you have signed so it is not a fire safety matter but a legal one and you should seek advice from a property lawyer.

What is important that it is made clear that this would not apply in an emergency situation. 

[Guest Lewis]

Hi was wondering if you could help 

The picture is a upstairs office block with less than 10 people using it. It already has a stair case at one end and fire alarm fitted throughout the office. The customer is wanting to extend the office block by a further 6 meters. Their are no combustible substances kept on site only general office equipment. Would another stair case be needed? The distance from the new end to the existing stair would be under 18meters and the new office block would be on the same fire alarm.  Any advice would be appreciated!

[Tom Sutton]

What is the travel distance from the new end to a place of comparative safety, the staircase may not be comparative safety.

[Guest Lewis]

8 hours ago, Tom Sutton said:

What is the travel distance from the new end to a place of comparative safety, the staircase may not be comparative safety.

Less than 18 meters

[Guest Lewis]

The exit to the building is a door under the stairs ( into car park) then their is two out the front of the building 

[Tom Sutton]

It appears you will have no problems, when you submit your building control application they will have the last say.

[Guest Vas]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2013 at 18:46, Tom Sutton said:

I see no problems as far as fire safety is concerned but there could be a security concerns.

 

Hi Tom and thanks for sharing your expertize . I would like to ask you how using a fire exit door for non-emergencies is duable when  all of these doors are fire rated?  for example this won't affect the pressurization of the staircase or even the expansion of the fire when the doors are been used constantly? Also I suppose the exits will be used as an entrance as well since people will be going in and out. Is this acceptable? It doesn't impair the evacuation plan since the exit show only one direction? Personally I haven't found in any building or fire code any of the above information whether is acceptable to use the accessible staircases as an ingress and egress.

[Guest Vasileios]

When you have a tower building of 15 levels and in the fire evacuation plan you have identified emergency exits is it possible to use them as ingress and egress for public use without impairing the emergency response plan? At first the evacuation route is one direction and it leads to enclosed stairways, pressurised with fire rated doors. If you use them every day for operational needs this is not an issue? It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could post a code requirement in regards to the use of the fire exit doors and stairways. Can they be used at all times? Is it prohibited to be used for ingress and egress. I would appreciate your input. Thank you!