Seeking opinions regarding fire door installation

[Zoy3579]

Hi there, I have recently had an experience with a new fire door installation to my flat and I wondered if anybody who works in this area or has knowledge of this might be able to share their thoughts on the matter?

 

I live in a converted building of studio flats. My managing agents said that we all needed new flat doors as they were not up to fire regulations (I had long debates with them about this before finally caving in to agreeing to have the door completely replaced but that is another story). So I had to pay almost 1.5k to have a new door put in. This seemed very excessive, but anyway that’s also another story and not really the point of this post.

 

Finally the door was installed and I was initially shocked to see the result. As you can see from the pictures there are large gaps around the outside of the door frame between the frame and the wall, in some places up to about 1cm. The door is also completely unvarnished and there are many aesthetic issues such as nail holes in the frame , saw marks in the frame etc. When I spoke to the director of the fire door installing company, he told me that all of these things were jobs for the decorator and not part of their job. Including the gap between frame and wall. I asked how a decorator would fill this gap and he said they would put filler in. Now I am trying to imagine how this would work but I can only imaginer that it would look very shoddy And un professional, and would therefore affect the value of my property.

 

I have spoken to the managing agents and they are buying  the line from the contractors that these remaining fixes are jobs for a decorator. However in their correspondence to me they only seem willing to mention the need for the doors to be varnished by a third party and seem to leave out mentioning all the other concerns I have brought up with them.

 

Most of these issues I have mentioned with my door are also present with the other newly installed doors in the building.

 

So  is this normal that a new door would be installed in this manner and that a decorator should have to make good things like this?

 

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Here is a google photos link to some images of my door. https://photos.app.goo.gl/iREYiVKSw7vW127C8

 

Cheers

 

Edd

[Mike North]

I would have a word with the local fire brigade, something doesn't sound right.

The installer should leave the installation compliant, that includes sealing the door to frame correctly, here should be no gaps and it should be fire stopped (this is a legal requirement).  I would request a copy of the installation certificate (FIRAS, TRADA or the contactors competency to instal fire doors)

The price, for a fully installed certified fire door is in the right ballpark, it’s the certification of the installation that costs

The decoration is debatable, the cost between a fire door installer and a decorator can be considerable do on a large job it is probably best to employ separate trades.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

The installation should have been completed in accordance with Building Regulations because replacement of fire doors is a notifiable activity and the local building control office should have been informed. The installer should have completed the installation in accordance with the fire resistance performance certification for the products used and installed as well as the relevant Code of Practice BS 8214: 2016.

Your task now is to ascertain whether the installer has complied with the above. If they haven't, you have a legitimate reason to make a complaint. 

[AnthonyB]

That's rough work - they've split the frame and not provided the required fire rated sealing of the gap between frame & wall - a decorator would use unsuitable products.
Look for certification stickers on both the frame and door as well as certification from the installer, but I wouldn't pay a penny for that. The whole exercise sounds deeply suspicious, both to the need for full replacement work initially and the price in relation to the quality of the work - whilst it's around what a quality install can cost did it actually cost all that for the job?

[Zoy3579]

Thanks very much for all of the replies. so the update is i have managed to obtain the fire safety certificate from them, which says that the door fully complies with Q mark fire door installation scheme and with building regulations 4 and 7, and it has the BM trada logo at the top.

I can't see any certification stickers or marks on the door or frame however.

I was aware of the regulations regarding maximum gap between door and frame, however this gap is between the frame and the wall and like can't find any guidance online about whether that is acceptable or not

regarding fire rated sealant there is no sealant sealing the visible gap between frame and walll, however actually inside the wall you can see they have used some kind of blue sealant

perhaps Mike's idea off having a chat with the local fire brigade is a good idea to see whether this is really OK from a legal standpoint

Anthony what kind of product do you think they should have used to seal the gap between frame and wall?

Even if the door is OK from a legal fire safety point of view, does this seem like a reasonable job and workmanship just aesthetically? i can understand that they are saying that decorating is not part of their job, but should they not have at least made the door to fit better or at least filled that gap in themselves somehow?

i am concerned that even if the door does pass certification and is compliant , it's poor aesthetics will affect the value of my property. i am worried that even when that gap is filled with some kind of sealant it will look shoddy

 

[AnthonyB]

It depends on the size and depth of the gap - different products are available depending on the dimensions.

Generally, for gaps up to 15mm you should completely fill the gap to the full depth of the door frame with tightly packed mineral wool. Make allowance though for a 10mm deep capping of intumescent acryilic sealant on both sides. The sealant should cap the mineral wool for a 10mm depth between the frame and the wall and not just to cover the surface of the gap. Intumescents are gap fillers and need surfaces to expand against under pressure, if applied to just a flat open surface they will just foam and fall away so they need to be inside the gap. 

This should be done all around the door frame to wall gap on both sides.

Where the gap is up to 20mm, follow the same method as above but use tightly fitted 15mm timber or MDF architraves to overlap both frame and wall by at least 15mm. For small gaps such as 3mm to 6mm where use of mineral wool is impractical you should fill the gap as deep as is practically possible with intumescent acrylic sealant. 

For especially large gaps line the opening with continuous solid timber and fill any remaining gaps as above.

(Gap filling information from previous posts on the subject by Neil Ashdown who regularly assists with fire door queries on here)