Nominal fire doors

[Guest Jax]

Hi I have been advised to replace 3 doors in a 2 bedroom 2 story cottage project which is undergoing some refurbishment for holiday letting. Existing doors are a recent install, immaculately fitted to the frames etc and otherwise perfect but are not fire rated. Been advised I need to replace these with a nominal fire door. Do the door handles also have to be replaced? Do I also have to rip out the existing frames? Thanks 

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Nominal fire doors can only ever be existing doors already installed in a building - one would never install a nominal fire door. Any new fire door that you purchase to install at the holiday property will have documentary evidence of fire performance. Therefore the door must be installed in accordance with the manufacturers certification. 

The frames and handles may be reused provided that they comply with the specification in the manufacturers certification, including where the door frame reverse face meets the surrounding wall construction.

[Mike North]

What is the door frame and how is it fixed to the wall, if the door is 44mm thick and solid core then what are you gaining from the certification of a fire door ?

You will still have a nominal fire door installation as the full assembly has not been type tested

 

I would get a fire door specialist to give you an opinion as to the suitability of the doors before I rip them out

[Guest Jax]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:09, Neil Ashdown MAFDI said:

Nominal fire doors can only ever be existing doors already installed in a building - one would never install a nominal fire door. Any new fire door that you purchase to install at the holiday property will have documentary evidence of fire performance. Therefore the door must be installed in accordance with the manufacturers certification. 

The frames and handles may be reused provided that they comply with the specification in the manufacturers certification, including where the door frame reverse face meets the surrounding wall construction.

Hi thanks so much for the response. The replacements suggested by the joiner are an FD30 white primed by someone like Howdens or Doors & More similar to what is already installed. However it is a cottage and the doors need to be trimmed more than the recommendations - he suggested hard lipping the ones which have to be cut into the sloped ceiling rooms. The existing frames/linings he said were likely an  off the shelf softwood so wouldn't have been FD30 rated. 

[Guest Jax]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:52, Mike North said:

What is the door frame and how is it fixed to the wall, if the door is 44mm thick and solid core then what are you gaining from the certification of a fire door ?

You will still have a nominal fire door installation as the full assembly has not been type tested

 

I would get a fire door specialist to give you an opinion as to the suitability of the doors before I rip them out

Thanks for responding. the door frame lining is likely a softwood and has been screwed in place. the existing door is 35 mm and not solid core as is a shaker style with 4 thinner panels. So I need to replace them with 44mm FD30. Although one has to be altered further than the guides due to sloped ceilings. When you say fire door specialist do you mean a specific manufacturer or an individual? I am hoping to try and find the most cost effective solution as possible while meet the door regs now required by this guide  6.8253 - PSG - Small paying-guest accommodation - Guides & checklist thanks  

[Mike North]

I think that you will find that if you must alter the door because of sloped ceilings this may take the door out of its certification.

If the doors are 35mm then you will need to change them, no need for an opinion.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

If the doors need to be fire resisting doors but are of a non-standard size or shape, then you will need to buy custom made fire doors and door frames. 

[Mike North]

You have 5 options (in order of cost)

1                    Alter the aperture so that an off the shelf fire door fits without major modification

2                    Have a fire risk assessment completed the shows the compensatory factors in place (fire alarm, stopping, sprinklers etc) are adequate without the doors for life safety.

3                    Consult with a door manufacturer about modifications to and existing fire door in line with the existing modifications allowed to the door so that it fits

4                    Have a paper written by a test house to allow the modification of the door

5                    Pay for a burn test to approve the door