Kitchen doors

[Mike North]

I am looking at a large dining facility with a large kitchen included. The kitchen is separated from the eating and service area by block-work walls.  All frying has its own Ansul suppression facilities.

At the moment there is a difference of opinion as to the rating if the fire doors.

1.       The kitchen is ancillary and therefore should be separated from the dining area as a compartment and have 60-minute doors, complies with ADB.

2.       BS 9999, Table 29, allows for separation of a dining area from the associated from a kitchen by 30-minute wall with 30 min doors.

The question is which one is right and why

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

ADB Annex C Fire Doors states: 

But clearly the most recent fire risk assessment should provide details of the fire rating required given the specific risk to life safety, the fire strategy and access for fire fighters.

[Mike North]

Unfortunately, I have 6 buildings built to the same design, 2 (the first and last) have FD30S the others have FD60S in the same positions, so the strategy is of no help.  The designers have ceased trading, so they won’t help, and the buildings were constructed by Carillion so not help there.

The FRA is not concerned about strategy of the building as long as there is one in place, and who would spot the doors are a different rating without reviewing them side by side.

Neil,  I cannot use a place of special fire hazard (kitchen is not in the definition) , or ancillary because of the size approx. 30%

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

I have seen similar situations in care homes.  Some FD60(s) and another FD30(s) with no apparent reason for the difference in door specification.  So where FD60(s) doors have been fitted, surely the question would be:  'Is the added fire resistance that these doors have, any material benefit in terms of the safety of the persons at the building and the safety of the fire services entering the building?'

[Mike North]

I think that the question is are the 30 minute doors complaint in the location, if they are not then that also calls into question the serving shutters   

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Yes indeed Mike, and compliant with what? 

[Mike North]

Current regulations

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Building or Fire Safety?

[PAUL THE JOINER]

Worked  in a few nursing/ care homes  doing maintenance and two things always happened   external kitchen door always open and internal kitchen doors always wedged open,extraction always running.

So a huge risk of fire/ smoke spread.

Reason being theyre  open is for ventilation and access for staff with plates cups trolleys etc.

Probably same in cafes and restaurants, but without the added risk of lack of staff and imobile  persons in large buildings.

Have what ever doors you want 30 or 60 mins but if theyre not  used, a waste of effort by all.

 

[Mike North]

all of them