Fire Doors - Normal Door Frame

[Red]

Hi,

We live in a three storey house that was built in 2004 - my understanding is that any door that opens into the stairwell should be a fire door, however, does the door frame also need to be a fire door frame?

The joiner has come today today to change a few of the doors and frames. He was unable to do this as he states the door frame we currently have is not a fire door frame, and the frame he had brought wouldn't fit as it was wider than the standard frame and the only way to do this would be to cut the stud wall back - which would also result in some electrics needing to be moved - costings (his quote) around 1K per door and frame.

Could anyone please advise me:-

1. Should the doors and door frame all be fire proof and has this always been the regulations or has that changed since 2004? If so how would it have been signed off at completion as been compliant?
2. I am obviously also really concerned that the house may now not be compliant which in turn could cause a risk to life or invalidate our home insurance?
3. How we can resolve this problem - it affects 4 doors?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[George Drayton]

If there is a requirement for fire doors to be installed, the door and frame come as a set & will have third party certification . The frame would also include grooves in the rebate for the installation of smoke/fire seals. 

Puzzled with the sentence of your joiner could not complete the works as the frames were bigger than the openings,  had he measured up prior to turning up and supplying the door sets?

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

1. Should the doors and door frame all be fire proof and has this always been the regulations or has that changed since 2004? If so how would it have been signed off at completion as been compliant?  Answer: Its not that a fire door frame needs to be fire-proof or fire rated. The fire door frame just needs to meet the specification stated in the fire door leaf manufacturers installation instructions in terms of sectional dimensions and density.
2. I am obviously also really concerned that the house may now not be compliant which in turn could cause a risk to life or invalidate our home insurance?  Answer: Contact a competent fire door installer, they should be able to advise what action is necessary to meet the relevant standards and regulations.
3. How we can resolve this problem - it affects 4 doors?  Answer: As 2 above.

[Red]

Thank you for the replies to this request. To respond to George's query about the measurement. The issue here was that the joiner told us that the frame had to have a 1 inch 'lip' (not his word) that the door would close against. The lip on our door is approx 1/4 inch. His point was that in order to put in a frame that the door would fit in, the opening in the wall would need to be wider and to achieve that he would have needed to take out the frame, expand the hole into the wall with knock on implications for wiring on nearby light switch etc.

He has said that the door we have is 762mm x 1981mm and that the opening would need to be 838 x 2057 to accommodate it which is presumably wider than the current space. I suppose that the alternative is a smaller door but that would be unusual. Or is/can the frame be compliant with the existing measurements?

[Mike North]

These dimensions may be of use

Halspan FD30

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

So based on Mike's post above (28mm thick door frame jambs for use with a Halspan Optima door leaf) and using a 762mm wide door leaf, the over-all door frame width would need to be  824mm.  Check the door frame requirements for the door leaf you intend to install. 

[George Drayton]

Red, a)you have a 762x1981 (2"6x6'6") door that is not a fire door, this is a standard size door.

B)The existing door frame may be a rebated frame not a planted on door stop and only be for an 1"3/8 door thickness(35mm).

C)The existing  frame will not have grooves machined in to install fire/smoke seal.

D) your opening size between the walls is for a 762mm door +frame.

Your joiner makes less sense by suggesting chopping into the wall.without viewing a photo of the opening?. IF he made the opening larger between the walls for a larger door then how would this operate as the components would be restricted from operating with the walls. Or does your exist frame have panelling timber or glass etc at the sides?

D) You require a 762x1981 door + the frame /fire door set for your existing opening

Upload a photo of the existing if possible

[PAUL THE JOINER]

Had this before on  terraced houses,  where the g/f walls are brick, and  the landlords want a fire door fitted.

So remove existing door and frame,then  measure opening and get a frame and fire door made for the size of opening,

pr

Make the opening wider, by removing bricks and re building/replastering wall,fit  off the shelf  fire door frame and  door.

or my answer just walk away from the job, huge mess disruption and costly to do.