Risks and Benefits of fire door replacements

[LookingForCommonSense]

Around 75% of fire doors fail the FDIS inspections.

A new BMTrada Q mark certification door set installation has been quoted as costing £2600 plus VAT.

There are around 30 fatalities per annum in flats/ maisonettes where fire is the primary cause (Are there any statistics as to how many of these were due to fire doors being below standard?)

There are around 3 million flats.

Assuming 75% of those flats failed FDIS inspections and were fitted with new fire doors the cost would be around £7 billion.

The UK Health and Safety Executive states the cost to society of a fatal injury as being £1.8M. On that basis an investment of 7 billion would need to save over 3500 lives to be justified.

The numbers don't seem to add up. How is this explained in the context of a risk assessment?

 

 

 

 

[green-foam]

I suggest you ask at the place that gave you the figures. This is a help, forum, NOT a debate forum.

[AnthonyB]

On 18/02/2023 at 21:19, LookingForCommonSense said:

Around 75% of fire doors fail the FDIS inspections.

A new BMTrada Q mark certification door set installation has been quoted as costing £2600 plus VAT.

There are around 30 fatalities per annum in flats/ maisonettes where fire is the primary cause (Are there any statistics as to how many of these were due to fire doors being below standard?)

There are around 3 million flats.

Assuming 75% of those flats failed FDIS inspections and were fitted with new fire doors the cost would be around £7 billion.

The UK Health and Safety Executive states the cost to society of a fatal injury as being £1.8M. On that basis an investment of 7 billion would need to save over 3500 lives to be justified.

The numbers don't seem to add up. How is this explained in the context of a risk assessment?

 

 

 

 

Because most of those who have jumped on the fire door survey bandwagon have done simple pass/fail courses and aren't actually risk assessing. Many doors can, fully in accordance with guidance, be repaired or upgraded - whilst some will require replacement not all will!

[Guest martin]

So is it right that all non fired rated (but well fitting) composite flat front doors that owners put in over the years have to be replaced with FD30s door sets?

Even where it is deemed a negligible risk by a Fire consultant. 

[AnthonyB]

If they aren't fire doors in any shape or form then yes - if it's just that they aren't certified, not necessarily depending on the size & layout of the block.

However the age of the doors can be critical too - note this from the latest statutory guidance from the Government:

It is reasonable to assume that composite flat entrance doors manufactured after late 2018 have adequate fire resistance.

However, this might not be the case if the doors were manufactured before this time. After the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017, a composite flat entrance door installed at Grenfell Tower achieved only 15 minutes’ fire resistance when tested.

The door was manufactured by Manse Masterdor (a company that no longer exists), and a number of the company’s composite flat entrance doors, although designed to provide 30 minutes’ fire resistance, failed to do so when tested. This led to tests of a range of manufacturers’ composite fire doors by Government. It was found that, depending on the manufacturer and the model of door, the fire resistance of these doors ranged from eight minutes to over 30 minutes. Common points of failure were letterboxes and glazing (e.g. as a result of manufacturing defects, such as in the means of securing the glazing). Where the point of failure was the letterbox, remedial work can often be carried out by the manufacturer or a specialist contactor on site. This might also be possible in the case of the glazing. In case of doubt, advice of the manufacturer should be sought.

A further issue is that the fire resistance of many composite doors was found to be different according to whether the door was tested from what would be the “common parts side” or the “flat side”; this was because, when originally tested, the doors were only tested from the “flat side”. If it can be confirmed (e.g. from documentation or liaison with the manufacturer/supplier) that the doors were supplied after late 2018, there should not be an issue, as the composite door industry doors are now tested from both sides.

In the case of doors manufactured before 2018, you should seek further information regarding their likely fire resistance. The Government have published the results of their tests on specific manufacturers’ products, (www.gov.uk/government/publications-fire-door-testing-grp-composite-test-results) and information can be sought from the manufacturer or supplier of the doors. In the case of these “legacy” doors, it is normally acceptable for adequate fire resistance to be provided from the “flat side”, as it is not expected that there will be a serious fire, of the severity used in fire resistance testing, within the common parts. Provided that the doors would have been purchased as 30 minute fire-resisting doors, from the perspective of risk and compliance with fire safety legislation, no immediate action is normally necessary, provided the fire resistance of the doors is, at least, around 15-20 minutes; the doors should be replaced over time as part of routine maintenance.

If you are in doubt regarding the adequacy of the fire resistance of composite flat entrance doors, you should seek the advice of a specialist, such as a third-party certificated fire risk assessor or fire safety consultant.