fire door seals: with or without brush

[Guest Tony T]

Hi there, could someone please help me. I've just had a few new door frames fitted in to my flat and have also purchased fire doors. The carpenter I've used did not fit fire door door frames so there is no rebate for the strip in them. When I questioned the carpenter on this he said it's absolutely fine to rebate the fire doors instead and fit the strip in to the doors "not the frames" he says this will meet all the fire regs. Can anyone confirm if this is true or false please, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks.

 

[Tom Sutton]

The intumescent strip can be fitted in the frame but it is acceptable to fit them in the fire door.

[Guest Paul]

Hello, can you retro fit an intumescent strip/smoke seal to a rebate of a fire door. I'm having a lot of conflicting info.

Many thanks

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

Self adhesive fire and smoke seals are available https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-door-seals-surface-mounted-intumescent-fire-and-smoke-seal-kit-product-1/?fGB=true&gclid=CjwKCAiAoNTUBRBUEiwAWje2lqpip9-5-BwL6n6Ikh2T8e9TFx9FgEfKJhrc-ZPElkVMQ_i0EBKjXRoCf5sQAvD_BwE

[Tom Sutton]

Paul what is the conflicting advice, is it that you cannot retro fit an intumescent strip/smoke seal and why?

[AnthonyB]

There are some parties that say you are not allowed to upgrade doors and must replace them as the resulting combination of an old uncertified leaf and new seals has not been tested.

Personally if upgrading I would try and retrofit seals to the frame not the door.

[Neil Ashdown MAFDI]

The point about fire doors is that if you can identify the fire door to it's manufacturer and relevant evidence of performance, then any components fitted or replaced to make up the fire door assembly should be 'as tested'. That means the fire door should be installed and maintained so that all components and installation data replicates the fire door assembly as it was 'fire performance tested'. For example if the BWF-Certifire label on the door leaf top edge shows the 'CF number' you are then able to download the certificate and data sheet from the Warrington Certification website and therefore install or maintain the fire door in accordance with the data sheet to ensure compliance. 

BUT many existing fire doors cannot be identified to a manufacturer and evidence of performance. So in this scenario there is no data to tell us what type of fire seals are necessary. In this scenario a self-adhesive fire seal is better than none. 

Because fire door core construction types vary so greatly, so do the requirements regarding installation and components. If in doubt seek expert advice. 

 

[fireman999]

It should be remembered that fire-door sets are required to meet a certain standard that is measured in time eg 30 or 60 minutes or higher. Together with this the door  may be required to prevent the passage of smoke and the only certain way that this can be measured is to subject the complete package eg fire-door, intumescent fire and smoke seals, hardware and fitting to a fire door test and providing you replicate this in all aspects you can be fairly certain that it will meet that standard - any substitution of any item can seriously downgrade the fire/smoke performance.

The first thing that you need to do is to find out what standard of fire resistance the door set is required to meet and this is usually done by carrying out a Fire Risk Assessment or by reference to any relevant Building Regulations and once this is done you will know what standard is required - do you know if the door-set was installed as a fire-door and the standard that was required? Are there any manufacturers names on the door - are you able to approach the owner/architect or builder that can give you this information?

As you can see there are a number of checks that you need to carry out before you can decide what to do and clearly the first thing you need to establish is - has this type of door been fire tested - are you sure that it is not an ordinary door? The problem with this is that if there is no indication on the door or no available proof you could be wasting your money and putting someones life at risk - are you happy to take that risk and if someone died would you be happy to stand up in court and admit to this?

Next lets assume that you are fairly confident it is a fire door and that you have the relevant proof and have spoken to the manufacturer/supplier and they have given you the information in respect of the frame, intumescent fire and smoke seals, hardware and fitting but it was not tested with self adhesive fire and smoke seals - how do you know that if you fit a non recommended seal that it will still meet the required standard - will the supplier/manufacturer give you a letter confirming that the combination of this door, seals and hardware will meet the required standard? 

As I stated previously substituting non approved items in a fire-door set is not an easy task and whilst it can be done it needs to be carried out by someone that is an expert in this field, not usually a carpenter, supplier or firefighter but someone that specialises in this area and will give you the written documentation to prove that it meets the required standard.

[Guest sue]

I have to fit intumescent strips to my door. There is very little gap and the stick on ones are too thick to allow the door to close properly. The neighbours door has a strip on the outside covering the gaps but does not know where it is from. I can't find such a strip online. Any suggestions? Thanks

[Neil ashdown]

There are two basic types of intumescent strips 1) The type that fits flush and tight into a groove in the edge of the door leaf or into a groove in the door frame reveal and 2) Self adhesive types that fit to the door fame reveal 

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-and-smoke-seals/?fga=true&msclkid=7837a0ed87c316adc67bfd1a66c4e42c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SL Text%3A fire door seals&utm_term=intumescent seals&utm_content=intumescent fire door seals   See images below. 

I expect your door is the entrance door to your flat, in which case smoke seals will also be a requirement.

[Guest Peter]

Hi

i have few double doors to install fire and smoke seals, do I need to to on both vertical sides ? Or one side is enough. Can anyone help please?

Thank you 

[Neil ashdown]

The seals should fill the gap between edges of the door leaves and the reveal of the door frame at both vertical edges and the top edge. On double leaf doors the seal should fill the gap between the meeting edges too.

The seals must not hinder the self-closing action of the doors. You may need to install a smoke seal at the threshold too.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Neil ashdown
To correct typing error

[Guest Simon]

Hi, 

I want abit advice about fire door frame for the main bathroom near corridors.   Do I have to fitted fire seal smoke brush strip? Because what I was confused is main bathroom not necessary fire door requirement .

[Neil ashdown]

The Fire Risk Assessment for the building should state whether a fire door is required for that room. 

What is the risk of fire starting in that room?   What would be the risk to others were a fire to start in that room?   What measures can be taken to deal with and mitigate the effects of a fire starting in that room?