Do flat owners under their own management need fire risk assessment?

[Guest Salty Dog]

Thanks again

Are key access points ( break glass type) a legal requirement or again are they recommended?

Do ld3 systems within flats form part of the communal area fire risk assessments. Is it flat owners own responsibility not management company 

 

From lacors

 

Grade ? LD3 coverage in each flat (non-interlinked 
smoke alarm in the room/lobby opening onto the 
escape route) to protect the sleeping occupants

 

Is it saying alarms only required in internal hallways to communal escape route not in bedroom lounge  kitchen

Would a f type wireless interlink system in all rooms provide better safety overall 

Grateful as ever for your knowledge and reply

[Tom Sutton]

What do you mean by key access points ( break glass type)?

Each self contained flat is exempt from The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (RR(FS)O) but subject to the Housing Act only the common areas are subject to the RR(FS)O. So the tenant of the flat is responsible for the flat the common ares the management company. 

The smoke alarm in the flat is for the protection of the residents of the flat and should sound the alarm if the route to the front door is threatened. This usually means the best location is in the hallway of the flat meaning that all the rooms off the hallway is protected. I do not know the layout of your flat so I am unable to advise you.

As far as I am aware the grade F is not recommended because of battery failure/missing but that is between the owner/tenant and the council who administers the House Act.

[AnthonyB]

On 13/07/2019 at 21:04, Guest Salty Dog said:

Can someone please advise if new 10 yr sealed battery interlinked alarms are an acceptable alternative to mains ld3 for self contained flats.non HMO  in 4 storey converted house.  Tia

If you mean battery only (Grade F1) no. Grade F alarms are not acceptable as they only have one source of power.

If you are a 4 storey s257 HMO (which isn't actually a HMO but flats not converted to Building Regs such as from a house) then guidance requires the common system to be Grade A (commercial type fire alarm) with the individual flat systems Grade D1

https://www.rla.org.uk/docs/LACORSFSguideApril62009.PDF

[Guest Sarah]

Hi,

I live in a victorian building that was converted into flats in the 1970s. There are 4 flats in the building - a basement flat with it's own entrance and three further flats that share a communal hallway and staircase. I have recently become aware of a fire risk assessment that was done in 2012 and states that there should be a smoke detectors fitted in the hall, stairs and landing connected to a central panel and that there should be emergency lighting on the upper floors. This has not been acted on.

Am I right in thinking that this potentially invalidates our buildings insurance in the event of a fire? And that the management company would be liable for criminal charges if anyone were to be injured or killed in a fire?

Also, is it worth getting a new fire risk assessment done prior to installing an alarm system>

Thanks

[AnthonyB]

Yes it could affect insurance and could be a criminal offence without needing for a fire to even occur as there only needs to be the potential risk to life rather than it being realised by an incident.

I'd get a new FRA though by someone that knows what they are doing and the specific standards for domestic premises- a common areas only system would be inadequate as it would only sound when the escape was already affected by fire and would draw people from the relative safety of their flat into the smoke & heat filled stair, plus wouldn't penetrate the rooms of the flats with enough audibility to wake occupiers. Also, depending on the nature of the construction of the building and it's conversion it may not need the alarm at all.

[Guest Livewire27]

Hi

 

We are a freehold magmt for a detatched property with 4 flats.  2 flats are rented out and 2 have the owners living in them.  We do our own management.  Do we need a fire assessment we have a communal staircase and front door.  we have emergency lighting.

 

Thanks

[Tom Sutton]

Yes as the Responsible Person and have a communal area then you do need to complete a FRA.

Check The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

[Guest Guest Albany]

Hi 

I need some advice regarding a freehold premises which I own/rent with four flats situated on the ground, first and second floors.

There is also a commercial unit on the ground floor with a separate entrance.

Within the communal area and within the flats there are smoke and heat detectors sounders all linked to a fire panel. Similarly within the corridor emergency lighting, sounders, smoke detectors and break glass panels at each floor level.

The property is managed by a letting agency,

Do I require a FRA for the communal area?

 

[Tom Sutton]

Yes you do, as the Responsible Person (RP) you are subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005  which apart from other duties requires you to conduct a FRA for the common areas.

Depending on the contract and duties of the letting company they maybe the RP with the appropriate duties.

[Guest Dan]

Hi I hope you can help me. I live in a Victorian house with 3 flats, ground floor, 1st floor & 2nd or top floor. A single person lives in each flat. I am in the process of selling mine on the first floor & the buyers solicitor has requested a FRA & by the way the 3 of us that live here are all freeholders ie shared. We have a small hall & single staircase to the first floor ie the communal area, I’ve ascertained from the above messages rightly or wrongly that I am/could be a RP? If so do I Have to fill out a form ie record it & give it to the buyers solicitor or just write down what I see & have done if I think something needs doing? 

[Tom Sutton]

You need the services of a solicitor for a definitive answer but in my opinion the three freehold tenants are the corporate Responsible Persons and are subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 which includes conducting a FRA. The guidance to use is the HOUSING – FIRE SAFETY Guidance on fire safety provisions for certain types of existing housing which will explain what is required.

[Guest John]

Are fire exit signs a requirement in buildings converted into flats? and is directional signage a required? within communal means of escape.

[Tom Sutton]

Check out section 7  https://www.bristol.ac.uk/safety/media/gn/escapesigns-gn.pdf it applies to the common areas of flats like any other buildings.

[AnthonyB]

However if there is only one escape route in the common area of flats you don't need signage (as per the government guidance for flats (https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/fire-safety-purpose-built-04b.pdf)

"The normal access and egress routes within a block of flats do not usually require fire exit signs to assist residents and visitors to make their way out of the building in the event of fire.

Flats with a single staircase, regardless of the number of floors, would, for example, not usually require any fire exit signage.

In other blocks, fire exit signage may be required in circumstances where there are:

• alternative exit routes

• secondary exits by way of an external stair

• across a flat roof

• where there is any potential for confusion"

[Guest Shaz]

Hi there I live in an old house which has been converted into flats in the 80’s. The Management Co have said our private corridor is subject to fire risk assessment as it is a fire escape. Can private areas be subject to fire risk assessment?

[AnthonyB]

No, if not communal they are not subject to the Fire Safety Order. The only aspect of your flat that is relevant is that bordering the common areas such as the front door and any communal ducting passing through.

[Guest Rick]

Hi I am the director of a block of freehold Flats, we have nine flats in total on three floors including ground, built 1970 with three small communal areas near stairs, there is no change to any part of the building but our managements company keeps doing a yearly fire risk assessment at a cost of £150 

how often do we need an assessment if we need one at all and if we do can we do it ourselves 

[AnthonyB]

Yes you need a Fire Risk Assessment as the common areas are subject to the Fire Safety Order (assuming you are in England or Wales) and the Fire Safety Bill passing through Parliament at the moment will increase responsibilities under this legislation in flat blocks.

You will need to re-examine your fire-risk assessment if you suspect it is no longer valid, such as after a near miss and every time there is a significant change to the level of risk in your premises, you would also need to review whether the measures detailed in it are being maintained correctly & precautions still in place. There is no set (yet) time for reviewing an FRA, however annual reviews are often recommended - but that's not doing the whole thing again every year unless indicated.

You need to be competent to carry out an FRA - here is the guidance you would need to apply, I leave it to you to determine your ability to use this: https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/fire-safety-purpose-built-04b.pdf

 

[Guest Emma]

Hi, I own a share of the freehold of a 3 story (6 flat) block of flats in England and as such am a director of our limited company. We had a fire risk assessment carried out in 2012 for the communal hallway, Since then there has been no significant changes to the communal area, the recommendations in this assessment report were addressed (such as putting ‘fire door keep shut’ signs up and no smoking signs up etc). Could you tell me if we as directors of our company are ‘competent’ to review the assessment and deem no further full assessment is required at this time due to no near misses or significant changes in the building? 

[AnthonyB]

I would say yes, update your action plan to show you have addressed the issues and that there are no other significant changes and put a date for next review, which should be 12 months ideally - at which time you repeat the review steps and if OK sign off and date for another 12 months etc....If you do find something then you need a new FRA by a competent person.

[Guest Philip Crawford]

Dear Sir,

Edge Property Management Co ltd Refuse To Share The Fire Risk Assessment With Flat Owners - Completed in January 2021. An Unsafe Building as Verified by a Fire Safety Expert (NIC) in April 2021 - Putting Flat Owner Lives at Risk.

What is the Law Relating to Recovery of the Fire Risk Assessment by Flat Owners?

 

Thank you, 

Philip Crawford Leaseholder 

 

[AnthonyB]

I think if you are concerned you should contact the Fire Safety department of your local Fire and Rescue service. A strict interpretation of the law is that significant findings of the FRA should be shared with other Responsible Persons in the premises, not all relevant persons. If the freehold is owned by the flat owners through right to manage then an owner who is on the Tenant Management Company board is a Responsible Person so can access the FRA, but if the freehold is privately owned then it's not a given.

[Guest MAW]

Please can you clarify the position with 4 maisonettes in a 2 story building, which have no internal communal areas, as all have their own front doors and the 2 upper flats have their own staircases leading up from their own front doors  - so no internally shared areas - Are any health and safety / fire assessments required, please?  (All 4 flats share the freehold).  Many thanks 

[AnthonyB]

When the Fire Safety Act comes into force in England (It's already operating in Wales) then you will (in theory based on how it's written) require a fire risk assessment as the building contains two or more dwellings and there is a new requirement to assess the external parts of the building (walls, cladding, doors, windows, balconies, etc).
 

[Guest Sam guest]

Hi Tom I’m selling my flat and the buyers solicitor is asking for a fire risk assessment 

what kind of stuff would flag up and does it need to be rectified by myself? Or the other co-feeeholders ?