Fire exit with thumb lock

[Guest Sara Bennett]

we manage a property which is a multi--tenanted office block, with different escape route for the basement tenant. There are rear of the building fire escape stairs, leading to a door which apparently releases when the fire alarm goes off. The door opens outwards onto the fire escape landing outside, which is not ideal, but worse is that on the inside there is a thumb lock which is kept locked for security purposes. Therefore this escape route is completely useless unless we can find some sort of means by which the people escaping can actually access this door and go down the main staircase and out of the front door, and also to maintain the integrity of security within the building. Our fire alarm maintenance company doesn't seem to know what to do, but this must be a pretty common problem, and wonder if you could advise? Any external door release would obviously compromise security.

[Tom Sutton]

Sorry Sara I cannot visualise the situation can you re-phase the question or can anybody help who is less thick than me.

[Tom Sutton]

Sara my understanding is you have a staircase at the rear of the building leading from the basement to, I assume the ground floor which opens onto a platform in the open air. From this platform another door opens into the main staircase which then leads to the front door.

1. When you get on the platform why can’t you disperse to the assemble point?

2. If you cannot disperse then how would an intruder get on the platform?

3. The door which apparently releases when the fire alarm goes off, is most probably fitted with mag-lock, why can’t the door into the main staircase be fitted as well.

Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/security-and-fire-safety/ it may be worth a read.

[Fast Key Services Ltd]

Is it not a viable option to have a fire release bar on the door? or can this not be done. Also what is the issue with intruders, if the door is thumb release from the inside how can it be accessed from the outside?

[Guest TiaR]

I live in a converted victorian terrace house that contains 3 separate flats with a common hall and front door. I was wondering if you could advise on whether this communal front door was permitted to have a chubb lock in terms of fire safety if this is the only means of escape? The lock is old and incredibly difficult to unlock and it concerns me that if there was an emergency and i wanted to evacuate the building quickly i would be stuck inside. I would like to ask my freeholder to change the lock to one that can be opened without a key from the inside. Please could you let me know if there is any legal obligation for him to do this.

Tia

[Tom Sutton]

Ideally, final exit doors from all premises should be fitted with locks/catches which are openable by the occupiers from the inside without the use of a removable key. This should always be the case in HMOs, including shared houses. Where security locks are fitted they should be of the type with a suitable internal thumb-turn to facilitate this. There is also a requirement for them to be maintained so both items have to be addressed.

Whether or not this is the situation will have to be decided between you and your freeholder. The fire service enforce the fire safety order so they have the last say.

[Guest MikeSla]

This questions affects the means of escape for three flats [occupancy total 8] above a separate beauty and nail salon.
Wooden staircase leading to Exit door at street level with DEAD LOCK that is kept locked but each of the three flats has key to the Yale type lock.
Should the only Fire escape door have a dead-lock capable of being locked with a key? Or should this be a latch only?

Thanks

Mike

[Tom Sutton]

All doors on escape routes should be quick and easy to open without the need for a key. In most situations this is the case; for instance, you simply operate the door handle of the door leading from an office and pass through. In the case of a hotel, while a key is required to access a bedroom, it is only necessary to operate the door handle to get out. However, the final exit door of a building frequently presents problems because this type of door requires a higher degree of security while still having to be to be opened easily from within.

Checkout http://www.firesafe.org.uk/security-and-fire-safety/

[Guest Caroline]

Hi there I am wondering do you know the year that thumb turns on doors& windows had to be used by law & fire regulations please I have looked and cannot find this information out for myself ,thanks for your help
Regards Caroline

[Tom Sutton]

Thumb turns on doors and windows have never been required by law or fire regulations. There are only two emergency exit fasteners recommended by British Standard BS EN 179:2008 which are lever handle or push pad. Because the fire safety order is all about risk assessment the RP (Responsible Person) can fit other types of fasteners if it is considered to be safe and are suitable risk assessed.

The main consideration is as stated in BS EN 179

4.1.2 Release function

An emergency exit device shall be designed to release a door at all times from the inside in less than 1 s, by one single hand operation only, not requiring the use of a key or other similar object. It shall be designed to release the door without any delay from the time the operating element is operated to the released position of the mechanism.

The operation of the operating element shall enable immediate exit from the inside at all times regardless of any auxiliary locking and/or unlocking means being incorporated, such as a deadbolt or outside access device. Compliance shall be verified by visual inspection, functional tests and/or measurements.

This would also apply to emergency escape windows.

[Guest davidYa]

Just a normal internal door leading from say a shop floor to the back of house area – like a stock room. So there will be a proper fire exit door in the back of house area that leads out of the building. This will have a push bar on it.

My query is the fire door on the fire router from the shop floor to the back area. I want to install a handle and latch onto that door. I don’t know if the law allows it or not?

Many Thanks,

David

[Safelincs]

Hi David

You need a latch that can be opened in a single movement (not handle and know, for example). If this exit is aimed primarily at your staff and this is a small store, you can use emergency pads.

Harry

[Tom Sutton]

As Harry has said a latch that can be opened easily in a single movement like a lever handle not a knob but if the numbers using the door is high then you should consider panic type devices.

However you can use a dead lock providing you open the lock at start of business. The key should then be removed and hung on a keyboard in a prominent place as a reminder that the door has been opened. At the close of business the locks can be locked until you open for business next time.

[Guest DavidY]

Hello Harry,

I am confused. I don’t want to do a handle and a knob. I want to put a normal handle and latch on a door to keep it closed, but the door is on a fire root.

Is this okay to install on an internal door that is on a fire route (which I guess will be for staff and customers)?

Many Thanks,

David

[Tom Sutton]

David

Put a normal handle and latch on a door to keep it closed providing the door can be opened easily in a single movement using a lever handle, not a knob but if the numbers using the door is high then you should consider panic type devices.

Sorry to stick my nose in Harry. :wacko:

[Guest TonyEdw]

Mortice Locks and latches

Can I install into a fire check door a latch separately to the lock operated by a key.
Location kitchen door into garage

Thanks

[Tom Sutton]

Domestic property is not subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 so it is up to you what you do but you must consider your means of escape plan for your home, or is this to do with the building Regulations approval?

Check out Approved Document Part B Fire Safety.

[Guest ChristineLe]

We changed our insurance policy some time ago because it insisted on our main exit door being deadlocked while we were inside our home, asleep. Our current insurance is now requiring the same. Do you know of any buildings and contents insurances for private detached houses which don't insist on this dangerous condition? Can you campaign for a change in the law to prevent it as it must cost lives in the event of a fire?

[Tom Sutton]

Are you sure, my insurance recommends that I have five lever dead lock on my front door which I lock when I leave the house but I am not required to lock it when I am in the house. If I was required to have a deadlock and to be locked at night I was fit an approved deadbolt nightlatch.

[Guest]

We have quick release handles on a fire exit door. What is the legislation about curtains at this type of door ?

Jacky

[Tom Sutton]

The legislation requires a fire risk assessment to be carried out and it is up to the assessor to accept such an arrangement based on his/her experience and guides. Most theatres and cinemas cover their fire exits with curtains which must be easily openable and clear of the floor by at least 150mm and it is up to the FR assessor whether they are considered acceptable or not. 

Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/regulatory-reform-fire-safety-order-2005/ 

Edited September 3, 2015 by Tom Sutton

[Guest guy engelmann]

I am having a kitchen extension at my home and intended to reuse my back door to lead from the new kitchen into the back garden. The building inspector has told me i must replace the door for one that has a thumb lock as a handle and key is not acceptable. I appreciate that external doors must be able to be operated from inside without a key in a buisness, but does this law equally apply in this case for a domestic property?

[Tom Sutton]

A single private dwelling is exempt from the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 but subject to the Building Regulations because you are having a material alteration. Guidance for means of escape is Approved Document B (fire safety) volume 1: Dwellinghouses and para 2.8 covers external doors provided for means of escape and says windows can be fitted with locks with or without keys no mention of external doors. I suggest you ask the building inspector where he/she get their information so you can check it out.

[Guest dan]

Hi Tom,

I have a question regarding a fire escape door from an underground car park.

The door in question has a green push button on the side wall, but this actions an electric latch on the door.

I thought that in case of a fire one can assume that electrical devices might fail due to a power failure caused by the fire.

In that case can a door with an electrical release system be considered to be a fire exit door ?

 

Thank you

[Tom Sutton]

Assuming the fire escape door locking device has been installed to BS 7273 part 4 then a power failure caused by the fire, the lock would be fail-safe and the door would would fail in open position.