Neil Ashdown MAFDI

Hi Tony59, Being built in 2000 the doors should be fire doors. You reference "DALE 90623" so the doors are most likely made by Dale Joinery in which case I suggest you contact Ian Cavanagh CertFDI via the search facility (he's based at Rochdale but should be able to help over the phone) at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector for advice. Kind regards, Neil.

No worries :)

Hi Melanie, Did the other companies say why they were unable to help? From what you have said above it appears that you are unable to source a cat flap that meets the relevant standard ( BS 476 part 31.1 or EN 1634-3) for smoke control. The other companies can supply letter plates that meet that standard but possibly for a cat flap, being different by the nature of its operation, it may not be possible. I cannot see that the product you have referenced above meets the above standards. With regard to sourcing and installing a fire door for your flat entrance I would advise you to contact the authority that has requested that you carry out this work. Then provide those details to the supplier / installer so that they may meet the authority's specification / requirements.

Hi Bristolboy, Whilst waiting for a reply you could try the various documents here http://www.ifsa.org.uk/documents/ for advice. Kind regards, Neil.

If the product was suitable they would reference the relevant BS / EN number. How did you get on with the companies I mentioned, these companies specialise in fire and smoke separation products for doors?

The Intumescent Fire Seals Association website at www.ifsa.org.uk provides information about various compliant options to meet the requirements. It also discusses the drawbacks and advantages of different types of seal.

Hi Melanie, "This Document addresses the need for sealing the threshold of a fire resistant door assembly, stating that if the gap at the threshold exceeds 3mm, then a threshold seal must be used." am I right in thinking that if the gaps are less than 3mm then legally that is ok?" If the threshold gap at the bottom of your flat entrance door does not exceed 3mm then you will not require a threshold seal. As far as the cat flap is concerned I would advise you to consult the manufacturers/suppliers previously advised with regard to evidence of fire and smoke performance before taking further action.

You don't say if you are referring to new fire door installations or existing ones and this makes a difference because: 1) If you have had new fire doors installed the installer should be able to provide you with fire and smoke performance certification for the products used to make up the fire door assembly. The standards applying to fire and smoke performance for fire door components are BS 476 part 20/22, BS476 part 31.1 , BSEN1634-1 and BSEN1634-3 (the list here is not exhaustive). He should also be able to provide confirmation that the doors have been installed in accordance with the door manufacturers instructions and BS8214:2016. 2) If you mean existing doors then you must refer to Article 17 of the Fire Safety Order ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/17/made ) to ensure that fire safety devices (this includes fire doors and escape doors) are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair. With regard to your question about separate certificates or one certificate for all doors, this would depend on numerous factors, not least, on whether the fire doors are all the same product with identical components. My advice is to seek advice from a Certificated Fire Door Inspector at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector He or she is the Competent Person as referenced by the 2005 Fire safety Order. Hope this helps, Neil.

Hi Tim, From what you say it seems like the front door to your flat opens onto a common area that would be used, by other residents, in a fire to enable them to reach a place of safety. If this is so then your flat entrance door needs to be an FD30s fire door to resist spread of fire for thirty minutes and restrict the spread of cold smoke too. Hope this helps, Neil.

Hi Melanie, I do sympathize and commend your approach in trying to find a solution. Fire door compliance is about using tested fire and smoke separation products, backed up by evidence of performance and installation of these products should be in accordance with the manufacturers instructions so as to ensure performance in real life. One area where smoke performance for a cat flap could be a problem is maintaining the seals against general wear and tear? My advice is to contact manufacturers of intumescent seals and smoke seals to discuss possible solutions. You could try: Mann McGowan http://www.mannmcgowan.co.uk/ , Lorient UK http://www.lorientuk.com/products/acoustic-seals-smoke-seals-and-fire-seals-for-door-assemblies and Envirograf https://envirograf.com/product/surface-mounted-intumescent-fire-firesmoke-seals/ Kind regards, Neil.

Hi Melanie, You are clearly taking a responsible and sensible approach. Assuming everything else is OK with the fire door and that self-closing and fire and cold smoke separation is compliant the main area you could have a problem is the cat flap. You say its draught proof and 'so would prevent cold smoke' but if the authorities require it could you provide evidence of performance to 'BS 476 Part 31.1 smoke penetration through door-sets' ? I am being deliberately pessimistic here because the fire and cold smoke performance of flat entrance doors is critical to the safety of other inhabitants and the fire door should meet the cold smoke restriction requirements of the above standard. See Tom's comment from November last year (above). Might be worth asking your supplier if they supply an intumescent fire rated cat flap that has also been successfully tested for cold smoke spread though? If they don't supply one.............then why is that............... and (how) can they recommend one for a flat entrance door? Kind regards, Neil.

For fire resisting doors you need to fit the correct (circular blue & white / blue & aluminium or stainless steel) signs. There's lots of information here http://firecode.org.uk/Code of Practice 2009 Issue 3.pdf in section 10 of 'Code of Practice: Hardware for Fire and Escape Doors'.

Presumably the products you fitted in your fire door came with evidence of fire and smoke performance to BS 476 pt 20/22 (or EN 1634-1)and BS 476 Pt 31.1 respectively? If they did not you are likely to have a problem in demonstrating suitability for installation in to a fire door.

Hi Geoff, This type of closing device was commonly fitted to FD20 internal fire doors inside flats and houses. Many hardware suppliers call them 'slammers' as they are not adjustable for closing strength and speed but are cheaper to buy than adjustable self-closers. They are not suitable for flat entrance doors and fire doors in common areas as they are not compliant with regulations that require such devices to be a minimum of power-size 3 to BS EN 1154. If you have them fitted to doors inside your flat or house there is no legal requirement to upgrade, indeed a change in building regulations no longer requires fire doors protecting staircases in dwelling houses and fire doors protecting inner lobbies in flats to be self-closing. There is guidance here https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/fire-safety-purpose-built-04b.pdf However, people do sometimes regard these self-closers to be a nuisance and often remove the complete device or sometimes just the chain itself. Any alteration to a fire door may affect its performance so if a concealed closer is removed then the void left inside the door / doorframe must be competently repaired.

Approved Document B of the Building Regulations sets out the requirements for 'providing early warning of a developing fire, satisfactory escape routes, preventing fire spread both within and to other buildings and providing good access and fire fighting facilities for the Fire Services' In this case the regulations appear to have failed. The question really comes about from Appendix B clause 3 which says unless it’s tested then it must be 800 plus - despite clause 1 saying the entire set should be tested - yet another contradiction in the Regs themselves.

Interested by comments from Guest 123. Fire doors undergo testing for fire separation performance and manufacturers product data sheets enable installers to replicate the test conditions at least in terms of the product installation. The fire performance tests are conducted to British and European standards and of course the real-life fire that could occur in a building may differ to the fire conditions used for the test. The door manufacturers product data sheet says: 1) Door to frame gaps: 4mm maximum at the vertical edges and top edge. 10mm at the threshold. 3.5mm between the meeting edges of double doors. 2) Hinges shall be CE marked for use on timber fire resisting doors. In addition the blade height is to be 100mm (+20mm -10mm), blade width 30mm (+/- 3mm), blade thickness 3mm (+/- 0.5mm) and knuckle diameter 13mm (+/- 1mm). Hinge fixings to be a minimum of four steel screws no smaller than No.8 by 32mm. The product data sheet also states ''........certification is conditional on these instructions being complied with in their entirety.........failure to do so will invalidate this approval and may jeopardise the fire performance of the door''. British standards and other guidance documents have been produced to help ensure that fire doors are installed correctly. These documents are authored by experts in the subject. I believe that when installing, repairing or maintaining fire safety devices such data sheets and guidance documents should be complied with. When working in the field of fire safety decisions made and work carried out should surely be backed up by performance data and best practice guidance. If we don't follow such data and guidance how can we evaluate likely fire performance. Footnote: a) Guest 123 seems to be contradictory in paragraphs 2 and 4. b) Timber fire doors vary in their core construction and framing construction (therefore fire separation performance will also vary) and so parallels should not be made between different doors.

The Building Regulations are clear. Performance of Fire Doors should be in accordance with the tests BS 476-22 or BS EN 1634-1 and the Building Regulations also state that the test evidence applies to the 'complete installed assembly'. Therefore the fire door installed at your house should be compliant with the relevant fire performance test for that particular door leaf. The door leaf manufacturer will be able to provide a data sheet showing the installation requirements including all ironmongery, intumescent seals and fire stopping around the frame at its junction with the supporting wall. Only doors installed in compliance with the fire performance test evidence are acceptable. If the fire door is not installed in this way, what evidence is there that it will provide the required fire separation performance?

IF IT IS a fire door then it is required to self-close fully to the rebate stop of the door frame. The self-closing action must overcome any resistance from the latch bolt, the latch keep or strike, the smoke seals and any floor covering. Failure to do so is clearly a breach of the Regulatory Reform (fire safety) Order 2005. The fact that the building is Grade II listed makes no difference. There should be a fire risk assessment and a fire strategy. If, as part of the fire strategy, that door is intended to be a fire door then it must self-close correctly.

There are security devices that lock the escape door but they release the lock automatically when the push bar or push pad is operated. Have a look at 'Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors' at http://www.firecode.org.uk/ Section 12, sub-sections 12.3.4 and 12.3.5 on pages 103 / 104 of the document cover this subject.

When replacing a fire door leaf the hinges and screws should be replaced at the same time. Hinges are subject to a lot of stress due to the weight of the door and pressure from the self closing device and therefore wear out much sooner. Replace with fire rated CE marked to BS EN 1935 steel or brass hinges with a durability grade 13 or 14. If the doors are FD60 they should have intumescent gaskets between each blade and the timber frame and door edge. Caution: You get what you pay for and do make sure the correct screws are used and that they are a secure fit in their fixing holes!!!

The important thing is that the installer is competent. Ask the installation company what reference documents they use and what standards they work to when installing fire doors and also what training the installers have received. Personally, if they are not familiar with 'BS 8214 : 2016 Timber based fire door assemblies Code of practice' and the GAI / DHF guidance document 'Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors' I would not employ them. Some clients are now requesting, as a condition, that the installation company provides a report by a competent third party confirming that the fire doors have been installed correctly. Third party accredited installation companies have their quality management systems audited periodically, their managers receive training and some of their work is subject to inspection by the scheme provider. FENSA, to the best of my knowledge, do not operate a third party certification scheme for installation of fire doors. Their have been numerous reports about poor quality and non compliant fire door installation work so remember, competence is king.

HI Rachel, Seek advice from a certificated fire door inspector. You can find your local one at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector

Hi Charles, I would ask for documentary evidence in support of their claim that the fire door would now fail to provide the required level of fire and smoke separation protection because of the damage caused by your son and his mates.

Hi Digger, There is no document that gives definitive advice about which doors need to be fire doors. Building regulations (part B - Fire safety) and guidance documents for blocks of flats / sleeping accommodation provide information specific to the building type. You need to carry out a fire risk assessment for the building. That will identify which doors are required to protect escape routes or are required for another risk based reason. If the kitchen presents a risk to the safety of the users of the building in terms of fire and smoke spread then the door needs to be a suitable and effective fire resisting door.

Laminate faced timber-based fire doors are available from many fire door suppliers. Sometimes this is for decorative purposes and sometimes for impact protection in which case edge protection and frame protection products are also available.