Ron

Thanks for your help Anthony.

Can anyone please let me know which fire safety guidance applies to such an establishment? I have looked at DCLG documents such as residential care, nursing homes and sleeping accommodation but these do not appear to be relevant. Not sure that Specialised Housing is appropriate either. As mentioned staff are there 24/7 and sleep there. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks

Thanks for your reply Mike.

Hi can anyone please advice on the best fire safety advice documents for a children's home. Children without mobility difficulties will share a typical two storey 4/5 bed house which has staff management/supervision 24/7. One child per bedroom. Many Thanks

Dear Anthony B thanks for your detailed reply. 👍

If you haven't looked at the guide -Fire Safety in Specialised Housing, it may assist.

Hello, I hope someone can assist. Is there a definitive answer of how many FRA's are required for a building comprising: Building is owned by one person. Large RENTAL retail unit on the ground floor with independent escape routes. Rented out by the building owner. 10 flats on the upper floors with independent escape routes. Rented out by the building owner. Is it three FRA's? One for the flats communal areas One for the commercial One for the entire building Or is it two? One for the flats communal areas One for the commercial Or is it something else?? Thanks for reading this far!

Hi Anthony B Thanks for your reply 👍

Hello, as per BS9980 2022 - it appears external wall surveys (EWS) only apply to buildings comprising of more than one residential buildings? Does anyone know if EWS is relevant regardless of the height of the residential building? Do hospitals have to carry out EWS (it appears they are not included in BS9980 2022 guidance? Thanks for reading this and if you can provide clarity for me that will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Anthony B 👍

Good afternoon. Can anyone please assist. In a block of flats when is an External Wall Survey needed for fire spread??. The premises are 4 storey, no commercial premises, external walls are brick, UPVC windows, no infill panels in the wall, good compartmentation - visual survey completed. Good maintained fire doors and fire alarm systems. Single stairs with 2 flats per floor. Using a stay put evacuation for over 55's (specialized housing - no wardens on site). Used the The Government Fire Risk Assessment Prioritisation Tool and it came out as low risk. PAS 79-2 has some good info on the topic but to my knowledge it is still suspended. Can anyone please point to current good guidance. Don't want to go down the route of unnecessary survey and expense. Thanks

Hi FYI - some woolly wording in the lease is being referred to so hopefully they will come onboard. Thanks

Hi, has anyone got experience of the following? A two-storey purpose-built block of flats has a communal area from which all flats are accessed. It was built in the 1980’s. It has a mixed fire alarm system. In the communal area there is a BS5839:Part 1, fire alarm system with smoke detection and sounders in each flat. The rented flats all have BS5839:Part 6 standalone systems with heat detection in the kitchen and smoke detection in the hallway. The anomaly is that flats which are owner occupied have varying systems, from battery operated smoke detection in the hallway and some owner-occupied flats do not have any automatic fire detection. Our concerns are the owner occupied flats, and ideally we would like to have a BS5839:Part 6 smoke detector installed in the flat hallway. The question is, can the owner occupiers of flats accessed off the common areas be legally forced to have any form of smoke detection provided in their private flats. Clearly it would be of benefit to them if they are at home and a fire occurs. Such an alarm may also be heard in neighbouring flats. I know the RRO does not apply, the Housing Act I’m not sure about it in relation to the problem raised? The Housing Health and Safety Rating System just seems to be relevant to Landlords. Can such an issue with an owner occupier of a flat, accessed of the common area, not having smoke detection in the flat normally be dealt with as part of the leasehold? Your assistance is appreciated.

Thanks for the link a very interesting BRE document on which there may be further research in the future.

Thanks for the replies I will have a read up on the BRE report.

Hello, can anyone please advise. Is there any guidance which provides info on when a 5839 system should be replaced or part replaced. I have seen CIBSE part M which mentions - Fire detection and alarm systems 15 years (Components include break-glass boxes, sounders, sensors, batteries, shutters, door fire curtains, exit detectors, smoke release vents, indicator and control panels and fire doors etc). My thoughts are that some detectors and equipment may be subject to extremes of temperature and perhaps be in humid atmospheres in dirty dusty environments. Some are in heated office blocks, flats, schools, hotels, care homes etc. Is is normal to carry out such planned preventative maintenance at such a frequency even though the systems are tested weekly and have 6 monthly maintenance. The system are not plagued with false alarms or issues. If a catastrophic failure occurred a Plan B contingency arrangement is in place. Do you think its reasonable to not have a fixed change date for i.e. panel, detectors, call points etc. Many thanks

Hi - I hope someone can assist. For a mobile home I assume it needs a BS5839Pt 6 fire alarm system. Does anyone know what grade and category it should be? Thanks for your help.

Hi Tom - Thanks for your reply. Just as an update for the forum I looked at the following website in addition to the one Tom recommended. I appreciate many of you will already be aware of this. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/2/made There is an exemption from The Building Regulations 2010 - CLASS 3 - Greenhouses and agricultural buildings - See UK Statutory Instruments 2010 No. 2214 SCHEDULE 2. One of the exemption criteria is that the building is provided with a fire exit which is not more than 30 metres from any point in the building - my thoughts are that this will be difficult to meet with the large developments which cover several acres or hectares. The following website provides further exemption detail: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/38/building_regulations/2 If exemption applies some works are exempt from the whole of the building regulations, others are only exempt from certain aspects. A table is provided detailing what is exempt. Clearly the above information is an example of what applies to new build. For those existing large glass houses which cover several hectares, typically for growing tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries etc, I can only find the CLG fire safety guidance documents unless anyone knows otherwise!! Thanks

Hi, Can anyone please advise on the most suitable fire safety guidance for large glass houses which cover several hectares, typically for growing tomatoes, cucumbers and strawberries. Thanks

I have looked at the white guide and knauff guide at MF fire rated ceilings and there is lots of info. However, I am trying to establish what fire resistance would be offered by a non fire rated 12.5mm plasterboard on a metal frame ceiling. The MF is plasterboarded is on the lower side only and there is no risk in the void above. I appreciate MF ceilings need various spacings for supports and hangers etc. The plasterboard has no markings for manufacture. Does anyone no where there is test data for such single sided plaster boarded ceilings of any thickness (with 3mm skim). Clearly it will be less than 30 minutes fire resistance but I am wondering if it would afford say 15 to 20 minutes which would allow time for persons to be evacuated from their bedrooms and adjoining corridor to a true FR30 compartment as a place of comparative safety. A fire in the bedroom would need to spread through the single sided 12.5mm plasterboard MF ceiling, over the non full height partition to the corridor and pass through the corridor ceiling from the metal frame side to affect persons therein. All ceiling penetrations would be FR30 rated. Ideally the corridor should be a proper protected FR30 corridor but I am looking to see if I can find any information to make an informed calculation as to what fire resistance will be offered to the escape corridor. From that point the Available Safe Escape Time can be gauged and from evidenced realistic fire scenarios an informed decision can be made as to whether the Required Safe Escape Time can be met (with a suitable safety margin). Any pointers would be appreciated - I guess the major manufacturers of plaster boards do not give out BS476 FR test results on all plasterboards. I assume to have such a test carried out as a one off would cost thousands of pounds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

You may want to consider the Lacors Guide: https://www.rla.org.uk/docs/LACORSFSguideApril62009.PDF See Page 18 Para - 15.5 Gas or electric meters and/or distribution boards should ideally not be sited in escape routes. However, it should be possible to relax this providing any gas meter is installed in accordance with the gas safety regulations and any electric meter is installed and sited in accordance with current IEE regulations. It is considered best practice to enclose such equipment in fire-resisting construction.

Hi Tom Thanks for your reply, I have found some useful guidance in BS9999. If any one needs it please look at Annex F (normative) Process plant and outdoor structures on Page 355.

Hi, to assist in completing a fire risk assessment can anyone offer guidance on the most suitable documents for assessing multi storey external plant with open grid stairways and walkways etc. These are open to the elements. The CLG suite of documents has fire safety risk assessments: factories and warehouses, but are there more relevant guidance documents which I can research and apply?? Thanks

Hi, I did get a little lost with my lack of understanding on these units. I hope you don't mind if I raise a query on the topic of magnetic locks. They are frequently used in residential home on final exits and to segregate areas IE residents with different mental capacity, limit access to stairways etc. If the magnetic locks fail to the open: on operation of the fire alarm, on failure/fault of the fire alarm, on electrical power failure, and on operation of a key pad Then why are manual green overrides necessary? Staff assist all residents and visitors to safety, key code pads are a balance between safety and escape. Operation of normal fire alarm call points will release the maglocks - staff are aware. It still is common practice for some Enforcing Authorities to require the Green Override Call Points - can anyone explain what added value they provide?? Thanks Ron

Hi Tom The research established that there are a myriad of different plasterboards, thicknesses and manufacturers. For the FR on some it depends on roof truss spacing, nogging & nail spacing etc etc. Whilst the aim was to determine the rating of existing ceilings below roof voids without flooring above I didn't achieve that. On some you can see the boarding is pink and can google data printed on the boarding to further the research. As part of my research I contacted various manufacturers who simply refer to there guidance docs/ data but you can't always ID who manufactured the boarding. Different manufacturers have different methods which go with their boarding to establish i.e. 30 min FR. I did not find anything published for single 12.5mm plasterboard FR rating with no flooring above. Other than ie fireline boarding. i contacted companies which test normal plasterboard for fire ratings and was informed that manufacturers do have fire ratings for normal plasterboards. Whilst they are not 30 mins the info was not shared with me as their clients have paid for those tests. They were willing to conduct tests on any plasterboards for me at a cost. Thanks to those who get involved with my initial enquiry.?