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Everything posted by AnthonyB
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If on the other hand it is a commercial premises and the system doesn't serve shared space and only your demise then under the terms of your lease & by virtue of your control of the workplace as an employer it will be your responsibility to maintain.
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This sounds very much like 'building works' for the purposes of the Building Regulations and so there should be a plans submission to Building Control.
- 68 replies
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- door closer
- fire door
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What voltages are involved? Some water spray & foam extinguishers can safely be used directly onto electrical fires of up to 1000V as well as accidental contact up to 35,000V. CO2 is probably most appropriate although you need to consider: a) Who is going to be able to use the extinguisher and is trained to do so? b)How are the occupiers going to know there is a fire and be able to access it quickly enough for a first aid attack? Some fire types and locations are such that suitable alarm, compartmentation & escape are more appropriate with fire brigade intervention especially in domestic premises
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The Council are incorrect to require service paperwork from BS5839-1 as it applies to commercial premises systems and BS58839-6 Grade A systems. Your premises have a grade D system for which the only maintenance is weekly testing & periodic cleaning of detectors in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. Also BS5839-1:2013 (the current standard) contains neither an appendix G9 (Just appendix G with one item, a model fire log book) nor a FSM3 form!
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A small single room building with two exits wouldn't need much. No automatic detection as any fire would be readily detected by the occupier, no electrical manual alarm as a verbal alarm would be heard sufficiently. Suitable extinguishers (see below *). The exit not in normal use should be signed & have a simple fastening not requiring a key (although if travel distances from one end to the other are 18m or less accounting for furniture a second exit isn't required). Emergency lighting should be considered although hand lamps could suffice. Suitable risk reduction measures such as servicing of heating equipment, PAT testing, fixed wire testing, not overloading sockets, allowing space around heaters and heat producing electrical equipment would be important too. * Your main risks are electrical & solids. Usually this requires a water spray or foam extinguisher for the solids, CO2 for the electrical, but to reduce the number of extinguishers needed you could use electrically rated wet extinguishers such as the Water Mist or any Britannia Fire water/foam spray extinguisher (including the service free P50) to cover both. Traditionally ABC Powder extinguishers were used for multipurpose cover, but the damage they cause and the potential harm to people in the vicinity is such they are frowned upon these days. If you are part of a larger building or are split into rooms it's more complex. You must carry out a Fire Risk Assessment, however if the employer with control of the premises has less than 5 employees and does not require a license to trade it need not be recorded (written) although it's still recommended
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If the accommodation (which presumably is staff accommodation that comes with the job) is within the club building and not separate is highly likely that a fire detection & alarm system will be required, although there are limited circumstances (that should be determined by Fire Risk Assessment) that could preclude it. Many pubs with accommodation for the manager or licensee have faced enforcement action for lack of adequate fire detection & warning systems and/or insufficient structural protection of the means of escape. Whilst parts of the premises may be considered not covered by the Fire Safety Order, they would be affected by those parts that do and so contain relevant persons who must be protected. The lack of even a rudimentary manual fire alarm system (call points and sounders only) is suggestive that the premises are very small - if they are not you have to consider if a fire warning could be adequately given manually - would someone shouting fire be clearly heard instantly through all parts of the premises?
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None of the above would be effective on cooking oil, only the foam & powder would suit the actual wood burner, but powder isn't really suitable indoors. Water Mist or Wet Chemical would suit all possible risks in the area.
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How can you stop children from a childcare centre leaving through a fire exit?
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Fire Exits
It's a typical cover, most have a slot to allow a tamper seal to be used: http://www.thesafetycentre.co.uk/store/fire_alarm_system_equipment/conventional_fire_alarm_manual_call_points/kac_manual_call_points_conventional_range/kac_p056_call_point_cover_seal_pack_of_5.php -
You need a decent risk assessor to physically look at it (unless you are that person asking for opinions!). Is it a purpose built care home or a conversion (for example from an old large house with/without extensions)? Most conversions and some older purpose built premises struggled to meet contemporary fire safety standards let alone current ones - whilst in use they had to do the best they could, but as this has closed down if it is unsuitable I can understand the reluctance to permit it's reuse for the same occupancy group. Was the FRS visit under the Fire Safety Order or as part of consultation under Building Regulations? I would put your query on the Firenet Forum as there are a lot of specialists on there who can offer opinion - http://www.crisis-response.com/forum/index.php
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A lot of that is down to BCO's and specifiers again....
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Very little individual actions are in themselves law - the regulations set out the broad fire safety aims, how they are achieved can vary meaning sometimes a particular item is essential to comply with the law yet in other circumstances merely recommended - hence the Fire Risk Assessment. So there is no sentence in law saying "you shall have a zone plan", but by not having them you may be in breach of the broad aims - your emergency plan could be affected if you don't have them and the lack of zone plans was one of the contributory factors in the multi fatality Rosepark Care Home fire in 2004. Not much point having a zoned fire alarm without them.
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What sort of premises is it? The current trend in several types of premises is to withdraw hose reels from service and replace with extinguishers (in fact in the majority of premises there are already enough extinguishers in place to negate the need for the reels!) A competent fire risk assessor can justify this and then you can use the take the reels out of service and use the supply for other purposes.
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What do you define as damage? It may be easier to replace it.
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If it's part of a block of flats, ground floor or not, the front door to the communal areas must be a fire door - I urge you to follow Tom's links. If you research properly there is an increasing range of aesthetic designs of door that meet FD30 standard available - it doesn't have to be a 'institutional' looking plain leaf
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How can you stop children from a childcare centre leaving through a fire exit?
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Fire Exits
Electromagnetic lock linked to the fire alarm with the green break glass override above the height a child can reach, or with a pull tag sealed hinged cover. More costly than a bolt but not uncommon as a solution in both child and elderly care premises -
Usually travel distances in these structures are within the limits for escape in a single direction and a fire would be quickly detectable by occupants. Room layout may create an 'inner room' situation where you have to pass from one room to another to reach the exit - this can be resolved by the provision of vision panels or a smoke alarm to the access room. Where these container cabins are linked, as can happen, the need for a second escape becomes far more likely
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There is nothing in law to stop an exit that is part of the escape provision from being used for non emergency access as long as that use does not compromise the ability of the door to be effectively used in an emergency. Most restrictions on the use of fire exits is a security measure, nothing to do with fire safety legislation
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I've seen it done, the dome type are usually one sided but I've seen them used on both sides usually where a door connects different premises in replacement of key in boxes and is less detrimental to the fire resistance.
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Care home fire safety training for a major Metropolitan council we work for is centralised at two homes with suitable learning centre facilities - the topics are generalised and supplement the in house training that is delivered at each home to the staff based there that concentrates on the premises fire alarm system, specific evacuation procedures and evacuation aids and service users risk assessments/PEEPs. As long as you are still getting the site specific stuff at the home you actually work in it should be fine.
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Is this a former Council library that has been saved from closure by becoming community run? The Fire Safety Order still applies and so there would need to be appropriate plans and training. The complexity will be determined to some degree by the nature of the premises - a ground floor only premises as per many suburban libraries will be more straightforward than a larger, multi storey building
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As above - having been on site when such a fitting had a burnout I can attest to the fact that it can happen - however in a risk assessment the clearance distance may be reducible depending on the fitting, the metal casing of the fitting in the incident contained any actual flaming and it soon burnt out without spreading.
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In essence yes! Guidance for different types of premises can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-safety-law-and-guidance-documents-for-business This should be addressed in your Fire Risk Assessment, for which if your premises are simple can be carried out using the documents in the above link or otherwise should be carried out by a reputable Competent Person such as those accredited to BAFE SP205 or on the IFE or IFPO Registered assessors schemes.
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If both elements are labelled as having passed the relevant tests you should be OK, however if the particular combination of cover and inner haven't been tested together it's recommended they are sent for testing. If it is antique furniture (made before 01/01/1950) it is exempt from the furniture regulations.
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what fire resistance needed in shopping centre?
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Passive Fire Protection
This should be referred to the Centre Manager who should in turn consult the owner's competent person for fire safety. Fire Safety in shopping Malls uses Fire engineered solutions and the use of RMU's has to be carefully considered both in size (needs to leave 3m each side) & fire loading (within the design limits for the sprinklers & smoke control system). -
Yes, legally compliant. Standby lighting for use over extended periods is usually a business continuity provision in commercial premises requiring very expensive to buy & maintain generator sets.
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- emergency lighting
- staircase
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