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AnthonyB

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Everything posted by AnthonyB

  1. Up to risk assessment - some places with similar issues use magnetic locks linked to the fire alarm in addition to the push bars. If the exit is serving less than 60 persons and there is suitable staffing to manage the fact that there would be two actions instead of one to open the door then it's not impossible to justify. Consideration should be given to whether the risk to the absconder from their ease of escape is greater than the risk from the exit no longer being panic proof and that in any case the risk from the latter is not itself intolerable.
  2. CO2 doesn't decay and of all the types of extinguisher they are the type most likely to still work if left sitting in a corner unchecked and unused for years. They can leak, usually from a cracked neck or defective neck or valve seat O rings, but this is rarer than in once was (it was an issue with early aluminium cylinders in the 60's, 70's and early 80's)
  3. This exact same question has been asked (& answered)on Firenet
  4. No problem, saves me typing it out again! The environment, occupancy/persons at risk and fire risks all are part of the factors to consider - most places I deal with they are removed/not installed, but there are exceptions. Powder is often installed in general commercial premises for Class C (gas) risks, overlooking completely the fact that tackling a class C fire other than by simply shutting off the gas supply is a specialist and potentially hazardous job and that the staff in these premises are not trained or equipped to do so (all 'general' fire safety training including extinguisher courses trains staff not to extinguish a gas jet fire) - the BS acknowledges this and so boiler rooms and gas intakes etc don't really need powder at all...
  5. Whilst you still may opt to do four 25% services a year it's not been required for a long time. Currently you need to cover 100% of the system within twelve months over a minimum of two visits not exceeding 6 months. Many sites now only have two 50% visits a year
  6. Simple answer - no!
  7. Nope, you are getting mixed up with BS5306-3 for extinguishers which has a +/- 1 month for basic & extended services. BS5839-1 states service visit intervals should not exceed 6 months or the system will be deemed to be non compliant. Quarterly servicing hasn't been a minimum requirement for a very long time now.
  8. It's certainly written in BS5306-3:2017 for portable extinguishers, whereas in standards for other systems it's not so lenient - fire alarms are "not exceeding six months" allowing early, but not late, servicing
  9. Certain environments will require specific training and a standard online course may be unsuitable - e.g. Care Homes where the fire risks, evacuation strategies and staff duties are far different from those in normal premises. You need to check the contents of the course against the procedures, roles and responsibilities in your premises. Some organisations offer sector specific versions of their courses (e.g. https://www.i2comply.com/firesafetyschooltraining.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlpDQBRDmARIsAAW6-DOGEoE6febQAlNY1d_mjDNs9kUlP1OZgOztu-fYPRVYu5B71YI08F0aAkE-EALw_wcB & http://www.healthandcare.co.uk/online-health-and-safety-training-courses/fire-safety-for-schools-online-health-and-safety-training-with-certification.html) However you may find you could use a general course supplemented by information on local procedures, although sector specific is obviously preferred.
  10. Usually no, but as the legislation is risk based if it can be demonstrated to not be a risk in theory it's possible, e.g. no ignition sources nearby, presence of automatic detection &/or suppression, suitable fire resistance to the cupboard, etc.
  11. And if it's a commercial leasehold property the same applies except the standard is BS5839-1:2017 where again the whole system needs to have been tested each year over a minimum of 2 service visits.
  12. The stairwell is required to be what is a protected route, which should have at least 30 minutes fire resistance from a fire on any of the floors and itself be fire sterile so a fire does not start within it. This is why there are thousands of buildings in the UK, including new builds, with only one stair and all safe and legal. The FRA should check that this situation is OK - as well as limits on travel distance and required exit widths there are limits on occupancy on a particular floor - as you are using the area as offices you require 6sq.m. per person and you could be overloading the floor
  13. In a building of the size you are in there should be no reason to not be able to add the detector to your existing panel (unless it's something very weird and obsolete with no spares made), you are unlikely to have exceeded your zone device limits or loop loadings, this wasn't accompanied by a quote to put in a whole new system to achieve this by any chance? If the detection is only required to give a local warning (e.g. an inner room situation) then you could use BS5839 Part 6 Grade D (mains & battery back up) domestic smoke alarms with radio link bases, although strictly speaking you should be extending the BS5839 Part 1 commercial system. If a more wider warning is needed then you have no option but to extend the commercial system. By across the escape route do you mean you have to pass through the room to exit? IT room detection is usually recommended for property protection only and not statutory life safety compliance unless the building overall needs a high level of cover (note that normal offices don't require detection at all unless multioccupied and then usually only to limited areas)
  14. However the windows may require to be openable for smoke control purposes so shouldn't be locked or restricted, depends on the layout
  15. If, as it sounds, the site is an old single company site with multiple separated buildings then there is usually not an automatic requirement to retain the central system, especially as these systems are often either completely obsolete or at least using legacy products and subject to faults or the need for expensive upgrades/replacements. Individual buildings, unless very small would still need their own electrical fire alarm systems - although the cost of installing these will add up a lot up front you can then leave responsibility for weekly testing, 6 monthly servicing and evacuation drills up to your tenants, instead of having to arrange it yourself and recover through the service charge. Where a larger building on site is split up it will require a single common system unless split into distinct units with 60 minute fire walls - easy with a warehouse being split, but an office block cannot be suitably broken up this way so would need a common system covering the common parts and office suits. You could do with a decent FRA and fire alarm spec to help you with this, it's something I've done many times as your scenario is quite common in the property sector which I work in.
  16. Final exit doors do not have to be fire resistant doors nor self closing unless required to protect an external escape route such as an external steel escape stair - no stair nearby, no requirement:
  17. This is why having sufficient fire wardens to sweep the building whilst leaving is essential as roll calls can take to long and the staff lists can be incomplete
  18. In a black & white world it would be no, never. In the real world a risk based approach is more sensible. If the room is large enough, lockable metal cabinets are used for potential combustibles and a separation gap from the installation, then as long as it is well managed and nothing very hazardous is introduced then I see no reason not to if no viable alternative is available. Usually these rooms are also fire rated rooms/cupboards with fire doors where I would accept it - the firestopping would need to be up to date too. Smoke detection would be desirable, but not always essential Care needs to be taken as mixed use of such areas has led to tragedy - the 14 fatality Rosepark Care Home fire in 2004 started in an electrical cupboard also used for storage:
  19. If there isn't a legal agreement (wayleave, easement, means of escape license, lease clause, etc) to go across your yard for escape then you can stop their access, if there is then you are stuck unless there is a break clause.
  20. AnthonyB

    PEEP

    Last after using a temporary waiting space (aka refuge) as their descent will be slow and to go first will cause a log jam, pushing, trips, etc as the main flow builds up behind them. Protected routes are never less than 30 minutes so there is plenty of safe evacuation time if they are last. Note - in some large/tall buildings with complex phased evacuations or where a PEEP involves the managed use of a firefighting or evacuation lift this can change to leave first, but usually it's last after refuge
  21. All this serves the opinion that Building Control certification is worthless as there is so much flexibility anything goes........
  22. Sounds reasonable to me if managed correctly, certain Care Homes have similar issues where there is a greater risk of residents wandering off. I've risk assessed a similar educational establishment where there is an absconding risk and a security/fire safety balance has had to be made.
  23. In a word, no. It's a protected shaft and complies with the guidance for shafts in Approved Document B (Fire Safety) to the Building Regulations. As long as the horizontal service penetrations are sealed then it's fine.
  24. Sounds like utter rubbish to me as there is nothing in any of the fire safety guides to support this and I think that the other tenant is just wanting to keep the main entrance for themselves. As long as the double fire doors are fitted with self closer and not wedged open there is absolutely no reason not to use them as a personnel access point. Also the BS radar is beeping with the reference to 'closing down'. The way Fire Safety enforcement works is that Prohibition Notices are rarely used and usually reserved for sleeping risk premises with multiple issues such as poor compartmentation, inadequate fire detection & alarms, i.e. an immediate risk of death or serious injury. In commercial premises as yours most breaches are dealt with informally by a fire safety letter (often called a notice of deficiencies/agreed action plan/etc) only escalating to a formal Enforcement Notice for continued non compliance or particularly severe/multiple offences.
  25. As stated there would be no requirement to carry out a FRA as the Fire Safety Order does not apply. The Housing Act 2004 does apply however from what you say if you check what you have provided against the LACORS guidance Tom has linked above you are more than likely to have met the basic fire safety requirements under this legislation. Also even if you had been required to carry out an FRA you appear to fall below the threshold for recording it so there would be nothing to give them anyway!
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