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Everything posted by AnthonyB
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Risk Assessment Requirement - Converted House Question
AnthonyB replied to Dr_Poth's topic in Fire Risk Assessments
The freeholders, having control over the common parts, would be legally responsible. If there is no Management Company then both the individual freeholders would jointly be Responsible Persons as 'natural persons', if there is a Management Company then it, as a 'legal person' it would be the RP. The Fire Safety Order (as amended by the Building Safety Act) applies to England & Wales and so you would be required to carry out a fire risk assessment which must be recorded along with the fire safety arrangements for the premises. The FRA would then determine if your current general fire precautions are adequate. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-safety-legislation-guidance-for-those-with-legal-duties -
If it's a separate external building the only considerations for the door is it's security/robustness and it's ability to ventilate the chamber. Sounds like someone has read guidance but can't apply it correctly. A gas intake room within a building would be different (but still not likely to need to be 's' rated)
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It wouldn't surprise me if the council does a kneejerk reaction and 'bans' everything, but having a second exit and being presumably ground floor, then none of that is really an issue - even in larger blocks the concept of ;managed use' exists to allow at least some of these. See also - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-in-purpose-built-blocks-of-flats
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If that's minor wear & tear then you have a slum landlord! Possibly, it depends on what elements of the cover are those giving the fire resistance.
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Many vets have an on call staff flat or rest room to allow staff to sleep. Whilst there are certain minimum requirements for sleeping risk premises an already compliant vets premises should either meet these anyway or not require major work. Guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-sleeping-accommodation
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Refer to your manual - some of these type of alarms use different sequences of beeps for different things such as low battery or in the case of CO alarms a raised level of CO that is below the alarm threshold.
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Do Fire risk assessment recommendations have to be implemented?
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Fire Prevention
Do you have a suitable site wide fire alarm system to support a full evacuation policy? If so, whilst a last resort it is a feasible alternative to compartmentation upgrades, which in some properties are not possible or feasible. A good FRA will acknowledge this - I've assessed many buildings where it's the only viable solution so the FRA doesn't scream 'intolerable' -
Stairwells shouldn't contain storage/deliveries anyway - are you talking about flats or commercial buildings.
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You'd need a combined fire & smoke damper - these are usually powered and linked to a fire detection & alarm system. For example you fit this to the door or doors: https://www.firesealsdirect.co.uk/passive-fire-protection/intumescent-grilles/fire-smoke-air-transfer-grilles/lvn20s/lorient-lvn20s-fire-smoke-resistant-air-transfer-grille-kit-200x200mm-54mm/ Then link them to this control & monitoring system: https://www.firesealsdirect.co.uk/passive-fire-protection/intumescent-grilles/talkback-damper-control-system/ Which in turn is linked to your fire alarm system. All vastly expensive hence rare to see.
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The only reason they would need it is if there is a resident who has identified a need for assistance and as part of the PEEP created for them by the agent the provision of an evac chair on their floor was part of it.
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Risk Assessment Query on Smoke ventilation in Blocks of Flats
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Fire Risk Assessments
Short section of ladder in SCBA is unlikely to happen, they could vent to some extent from the landing set, although strictly speaking the higher ones should be the ones used. It meets the spirit of the guidance so it's essentially how comfortable you feel with it in this situation. -
Looks like a pretty standard cladding & latent defect exclusion that virtually all standard fire risk assessors PI have. Cover for this is difficult to get and costs a capital amount of money which is why firms doing FRAEW reports charge an extortionate amount of money.
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No, such requirements aren't retrospective if no relevant alterations have been carried out in recent times where they should have been added.
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The minimum is to test one smoke/heat detector or call point per zone on a service visit, with all having been tested at least once in a 12 month period. The minimum is 2 service visits in a 12 month period so most of the time you see 50% of devices tested per visit, but as long as one per zone is tested you could do 10%/90%, 25%/75% or whatever works. Large sites can have more than 2 service visits so the percentage split could be 25%/25%/25%/25% or other combinations Reference BS5839-1:2017 45.3 (g) & (h)
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If you have to discount the shutter as it has no wicket gate and doesn't meet the definition in (f) above and the premises are as small as you describe (thus not requiring an electrical fire alarm system as human detection & verbal warning is deemed sufficient) then to manage the 'inner room' (warehouse) situation then you can either: - ensure there is a vision panel in the door between the inner room (warehouse) & access room (office); or - provide a mains powered (Grade D) domestic smoke alarm to the inner room (Reference https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64257bbe3d885d000cdadf2d/A_guide_to_making_your_small_non-domestic_premises_safe_from_fire.pdf)
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In flats there is a legally binding inspection regime where over 11m under the Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022. Quarterly for communal doors, Annual for flat front doors. Smaller blocks still have to inspect but rather than being prescribed intervals the official Guidance (which has special status meaning if you follow it you are deemed compliant with the law but if you don't you will tend to be deemed non compliant) states 6 monthly for communal doors and still has annual for flat front doors but rather than 'best endeavours' as required in over 11m blocks (meaning you have to do everything you can to access the doors, not just try once and give up) it's more aspirational. Everywhere else it's usually seen as 6 monthly - although more frequent checks for propping, etc are usually inspected as part of weekly/monthly general inspections of workplace fire precautions.
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It shouldn't if the assessment is any good - however the fact you aren't seeing the assessment may indicate it has. Under s156 of the Building Safety Act you have a legal right to be told of the risks in the building as part of the annual resident engagement requirement (evacuation procedure, importance of fire doors, name & UK address of the Responsible Person, etc) that applies to all buildings with 2 or more dwellings, not just high rises.
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If it doesn't have the etching for fire rated glass as oppose to just toughened or laminated the assumption has to be it isn't - fire rated glass in the pre-etching days was almost universally Georgian wired so if it was clear it wasn't fire glazing. I'd have no option to request the glass is changed myself.
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Steel sliding composite fire doors in industrial buildings
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Fire Exits
Safety in which respect? The fusible link wouldn't usually release the door until anyone nearby is already dead - they were usually provided for property protection than life safety. They should be subject to a planned maintenance regime, usually annual maintenance. -
Fire door regulations of pre 2000
AnthonyB replied to david wood's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
It did exist since the 80's - but it wasn't (& still isn't) mandatory to be certified and marked. -
Single chain perkos have been frowned upon by the Ironmongery Industry since the early 90's and not considered acceptable by them since the mid 2000's, but some government guidance still accepts them even though they don't meet current standards for a self closer - most only site standards related to fire resistance not performance as a closer.
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Toilets are normally exempt from needing fire doors unless containing a particular risk (e.g. a boiler), a staff room if opening onto an escape route would probably need am FD30s door.
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Is your fire alarm system set up for a simultaneous evacuation procedure with a common alarm that extends into the flats? Unfortunately too many BCO's think Approved Document B is a mandatory document - it is not (It even says this: "There may be other ways to comply with the requirements than those described in an approved document. If those responsible for meeting the requirements prefer to meet a requirement in some other way than described in an approved document, they should seek to agree this with the relevant building control body at an early stage".) There are plenty of flat conversions in older buildings where smoke control and a stay put policy are not viable to fit where simultaneous evacuation is used and the functional requirements of Building Regulations are met and completion issued. Perhaps they are only a Class 2 Building Inspector under the new Building Control regime & only able/willing to stick to ADB - if you are departing from ADB significantly (which you can do) you may need a Class 3 or above even though it's a low rise building.
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The first thing is - are they needed at all? In purpose built blocks domestic smoke alarms should not be fitted in common areas and a commercial grade fire alarm system is also not required except if there are automatic opening vents when smoke detectors (no alarms or call points) are required. If your block is a conversion and on a full evacuate policy with a fire alarm system that covers both common areas and flats then fair enough. To your question: - Domestic smoke alarms: Monthly test using test button, no servicing unless linked to a telecare system - Commercial alarm system: Weekly test using a different call point each week and 6 monthly service by a competent person. A decent FRA from someone with residential expertise is important - I have a lot of resident management company clients who have previously paid out for or be told to provide a whole host of measures that aren't actually required & in some cases even counterproductive, especially in small blocks
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You are correct that the exit doors should be panic proof in all situations - the preferred system is delayed action panic bolts - press the bar, an alarm sounds and after 15 seconds the door releases (seen in any Costcos). The situation you describe is very common yet rarely picked up as an issue, my worry is it will take a real incident for people to take notice.