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Everything posted by AnthonyB
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Fire doors/Storage on protected stairway
AnthonyB replied to FacilitiesNAE's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Self closing doors don't always have catches, a well adjusted closer can sometimes hold the door enough not to warrant one. The forums fire door expert should hopefully give you a detailed answer next time they log on -
Yours is a very common scenario, it's odd the guidance skips the fact in many temporary event layout venues fixing isn't possible. Some local authority guidance accepts that the floor seating cannot always be fixed as per national guidance, but insists they are at least tied in lengths, e.g. https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/frsholdingevents
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There always was to some extent, it's only in recent years it's been an area looked at to any degree. As there has to be a fire risk assessment for the premises this should detail the level of protection required - it could be a simple upgrade of the existing cupboard, new separation, protective enclosure over the meters, or even accepting the current set up (e.g. if all the electrical boards are in non combustible housings as per the most recent revisions of electrical installation regs)
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Technical standards can be retrospective for fire safety legislation purposes as the statutory bar was removed by the current legislation. The fire risk assessment should determine whether existing legacy precautions or remain adequate. So it's not appropriate to blanketly require current standards nor is it OK to automatically assume that because something was OK xx years ago it is now. A competent person would need to demonstrate why the existing standard of installation that isn't to current (or even the past for some time) specifications does not adversely affect safety. It is possible to do this, but it's not automatically the case. The fire service are the backstop for the worst non conforming premises and will not carry out your FRA nor highlight anything other than the most severe issues so it's rare for them to go into that much detail on a door.
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1. Consult a qualified fire risk assessor or https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-sleeping-accommodation. It's not as simple as number of exits but also includes travel distances, separation from the bar below, type & extent of fire alarm system, etc 2. It's risk based. The expectation is for intumescent seals and cold smoke brushes particularly in sleeping risk, but the overall risk and fire safety package has to be taken into account. You can't just say they were OK at the time, but need to show why they still remain OK (as technical progress has shown they have a sub-par performance). I've assessed premises where I've mitigated the retention of old pre-1980's spec fire doors, but others where I've had to advise replacement - this is the point of the FRA process.
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Freeholder of Georgian conversion property
AnthonyB replied to LK5457's topic in Fire Risk Assessments
Based on the fact it was not originally flats and was converted before the modern era of Building Regulations this is appropriate: https://www.cieh.org/media/1244/guidance-on-fire-safety-provisions-for-certain-types-of-existing-housing.pdf Section 37, p46 covers your situation. If you need help with your FRA please let me know. -
Not for Building Regulations purposes - but it can be for fire safety legislation purposes as the statutory bar was removed by the current legislation. The fire risk assessment should determine whether existing legacy precautions or remain adequate. So it's not appropriate to blanketly require current standards nor is it OK to automatically assume that because something was OK xx years ago it is now.
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Fire doors/Storage on protected stairway
AnthonyB replied to FacilitiesNAE's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Leave unlocked and fit an EN 1154 such as https://www.safelincs.co.uk/geze-2000-overhead-door-closer/ -
From HM Government "Fire Safety Risk Assessment - Small and medium places of assembly" which covers Churches. "If temporary seating is provided, these should be secured in lengths of not fewer than four seats (and not more than 12). Each length should be fixed to the floor"
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Delay between call point activation and full alarm activation
AnthonyB replied to Aps48's topic in Fire Prevention
What category of automatic detection is there & is the building sprinklered? 19.2.2 (c) of BS5839-1 does give scope for call points to only sound an initial staff alarm: "Any proposal to use a staff alarm as the initial response to a signal from a manual call point should be subject to special consideration. In such special circumstances, there should be adequate arrangements to ensure that a person operating a manual call point is not left in doubt as to the success of the operation (e.g. by means of visual indication at the call point that the signal has been correctly received at the control equipment and a suitable warning that operation of the manual call point will not result in an immediate audible fire warning). NOTE 1 It is common practice for both manual call points and automatic detectors in large places of public entertainment to initiate only a staff alarm, so that staff can be prepared to assist in an orderly evacuation, which is then initiated by a voice alarm message. Such arrangements necessitate a high level of training and awareness on the part of staff, and might not be appropriate in other premises" London Underground is one example of silent manual call points in public areas. -
Fire stopping within electrical intake cupboard
AnthonyB replied to Afro_Zen's topic in Passive Fire Protection
Not a location needing stopping - probably used whatever foam they had to hand for insulation/damp/acoustic sealing -
They are certainly frowned upon in the Government Fire Safety Guides: "Electromechanical devices Electromechanical devices comprise electromechanical lock keeps and draw bolts, which can be controlled by people inside the premises by entering a code or by using ‘smart cards’, which have been adapted to control the exit from certain areas. These devices have been fitted in many premises and may be linked to the fire-detection and/or warning system. Experience has shown that these devices can fail to open in a number of ways. They are dependent on a spring mechanism to return the lock keep or draw bolt(s) and are liable to jam when pressure is applied to the door. It is also relatively easy to fit them incorrectly. Electromechanical locking devices are normally unacceptable on escape doors, unless they are fitted with a manual means of overriding the locking mechanism, such as a push bar, push pad or lever handle or they do not rely on a spring mechanism, fail-safe open and are not affected by pressure, in which case the criteria for electromagnetic devices should be applied."
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1 - No, it sounds like the exit width is provided via the full door and, as is common, the half leaf is for where extra width is temporarily needed, e.g. moving large items/furniture, hence why it's bolted. If the full leaf and a half was required for escape width as sometimes is the case then the half door would/should have no bolts and a self closer. 2- I'll let the forum's fire door specialist address this next time he logs on
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American La France was owned by ASCOA after acquisition from Sterling Precision Instruments and before sale to Figgie"
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From my fellow experts from across the pond: "American La France 2-3/4 lb. Dry chemical. I have a later version. Not super common with this name plate. Maybe $20-25 to the right person."
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Not really unless the premises have temporary mitigation measures in place. The room sounders are there because the corridor sounders will not rouse a fair percentage of people in bedrooms - studies showed people asleep in unfamiliar locations actually need higher sound pressures hence the change in standards over 40 years ago to have sounders in bedrooms.
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If you ask US based extinguisher preservationists you will get a value for this. It's in good condition and has a particular branding different to the more common ones for this model (sold under various different brands) so whilst not worth serious money could fetch a few dollars or more to the right person. If you use Facebook this group is full of expert knowledge from several counties (including the US) and will give you far more info: Antique Fire Extinguisher Collectors/Current Extinguisher users
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No, the main reason water mist and stuff like Firexo get bad press from the trade is that it reduces the numbers they sell and have to maintain. These emerging new technologies have gone through the required EN3 fire tests and can provide single extinguisher type solutions for a wide range of premises and work types.
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They must be on the side where people are escaping from, so when moving in the direction of escape you will have a green breakglass. BS7273-4 covers this.
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An EICR is a legal requirement in all rented dwellings not just licensed HMO's. I strongly urge you contact your local council Environmental Health (primary enforcers for houses & HMOs) as you are in a rogue landlord property - The Housing Act covers all properties, licensed or not and should meet the requirements of the Housing Health & Safety Rating System. You may be able to take legal action as the attempts to evict could be classed as aa 'revenge' eviction for you complaining - seek advice from Shelter & the Citizens Advice Bureau
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Powder is common as very cheap and suitable for everything in the home other than cooking oils - it's very, very messy though. Water Mist has the same all round cover, but also can cover cooking oil risks too and is far less messy so is worth the extra cost. A fire blanket can be handy to - but only if it's a Kitemarked one as sold by Safelincs - many online marketplaces sell cheap imports that are counterfeit and don't work effectively
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Can't see the point then!
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No, you are legally required to keep the system operational, you have a service charge budget for a reason, so you should be able to get it sorted. The insurance company should be aware of the system being down and appropriate mitigation in place or you risk loss of cover.
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door furniture intumescent protection
AnthonyB replied to nickb's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Unless carrying out a change to the building that would come under Building Regulations then inside a private dwelling the most you would be expected to do is maintain the doors to the standard approved at original installation/build.