Tom Sutton

Originally you were advised incorrectly check out Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats 19.1 A ‘stay put’ policy involves the following approach. • When a fire occurs within a flat, the occupants alert others in the flat, make their way out of the building and summon the fire and rescue service. • If a fire starts in the common parts, anyone in these areas makes their way out of the building and summons the fire and rescue service. • All other residents not directly affected by the fire would be expected to ‘stay put’ and remain in their flat unless directed to leave by the fire and rescue service. 19.2 It is not implied that those not directly involved who wish to leave the building should be prevented from doing so. Nor does this preclude those evacuating a flat that is on fire from alerting their neighbours so that they can also escape if they feel threatened.

I hope you will get some sort of response from the building control and if you do let us know.

As far as I am concerned the only description of escape windows are in Approved Document B (Fire Safety) Vol 1 which states, Emergency escape windows and external doors 2.10 Windows or external doors providing emergency escape should comply with all of the following. i. A minimum area of 0.33 m2. ii. A minimum height of 450 mm and a minimum width of 450 mm (the route through the window may be at an angle rather than straight through). iii. The bottom of the openable area is a maximum of 1100 mm above the floor. b. People escaping should be able to reach a place free from danger from fire. Courtyards or inaccessible back gardens should comply with Diagram 2.5. c. Locks (with or without removable keys) and opening stays (with child-resistant release catches) may be fitted to escape windows. d. Windows should be capable of remaining open without being held. Therefore secondary glazing would not comply with that but as it usually can be slide back exposing the escape window fully, this is the dilemma and why you are finding it difficult to get an answer. If building control will not provide an answer I cannot see anybody else being able to.

Acetone fumes are heavier than air so ignition sources low down would be a risk and stored in a well ventilated/sealed container. Check out https://www.nhsggc.org.uk/media/236208/msds-acetone.pdf

I am not aware of any min/max evacuation times other than from places of risk to places of comparative safety, however I would hope the result of the roll calls would be available as soon as possible after the Fire and Rescue Service has arrived in case there are any persons missing.

You need the services of a solicitor for a definitive answer but in my opinion the three freehold tenants are the corporate Responsible Persons and are subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 which includes conducting a FRA. The guidance to use is the HOUSING – FIRE SAFETY Guidance on fire safety provisions for certain types of existing housing which will explain what is required.

It is very difficult to understand your problem from your description it would need a survey or have detailed plans but there is usually a solution and maintain the 30/60 fire resistance. I would suggest you need the services of a fire risk assessor.

What I was trying to say was originally panic bars were used when it was considered that a panic could ensue in the event of an emergency, like places of public assemble, like theatres, cinemas, also doors to external fire escapes, but unclear why. Then over time they started using them in places that really did not require them like on a door that was not on general use so an exit sign was fitted. Many people think because it has a fire exit sign it becomes a special emergency fire exit door but in fact all doors leading to safety, with or without signs are emergency fire exit doors in an emergency. So I would consider AB rule of thumb, that they only needed on doors likely to be used by more than 60 persons and not always then, use risk assessment.

Unfortunately there is no standard concerning plastic plugs and it is up to the manufacturer to decide colour coding. The only acceptable colour coding is the Trada and BWF systems and BWF does not use it anymore. I think the only way you will find out is if you can find any documentation that goes with the door.

Unfortunately I do not now have access to that document anymore.

A repeat submission check out AB answer.

I think because fire safety in not a science but based on assessment I have never seen a a guide that gives precise reading in minutes for fire resistance they all have used standard levels of FR (30.60,90,120, 240) and in the early days it just referred to the thickness of plaster board/skimming with no test evidence.

Because the fire doors may set due to the weight on the hinges and when they are required, the door could jamb, preventing them closing. Allowing them to close during the night ,at a time when the the facility is unlikely to be used, is a fair solution, a better idea is to have the self closer adjusted.

I cannot see any problems with a rim lock but barrel bolts are a no no because any person could open them and leave them open defeating the purpose of a fire resisting enclosure.

I think most people on this forum are involved in English and Welsh fire law, with the Scottish/Northern Ireland fire laws so different, to get involved in more than one would need a lot of research, which would be outside to scope of many of us. However I did find this which may be of use https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-forms-and-guidance/.

The Responsible Person in each unit is the employer as detailed in The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 article 3 which requires them to conduct a Fire Risk Assessment and fit a fire alarm if necessary. If you choose to take over any of these duties you would be considered responsible as the Person Having Control. (article 5.3)

The normal lighting is used daily and any defects or low standards will be known quickly and under the Health and Safety at Work Act they will be required to correct the situation. The emergency lighting will only operate if the normal lighting fails, so there is no way of knowing if it is defective until it is tested or maintenance and is subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. This forum is a fire safety forum not a health and safety forum so we tend to concentrate on emergency lighting.

I am not aware of such a document but I would imagine the are other similar situations. It is now all about fire risk assessment so if you are experience enough simply apply fire safety principles and active fire safety devices.

In a single domestic property all the rooms off the escape route has a FD 20 fire doors with no self closes and the front door has no fire resistance because once through the front door you are unlikely to put your neighbours to any risk. In a flat all the rooms off the escape route has a FD 20 fire doors with no self closes and the front door, also any risk rooms are FD30s fire doors to prevent a fire in your flat putting you fellow tenants to any risk. In an HMO the front door to your bed/sit and any risk rooms have FD30s, c/w s/c, fire door to prevent a fire in your bed/sit putting your fellow tenants to any risk, it is all about the degree of risk.

The Responsible Person defined in The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 is required to conduct a fire risk assessment and this document will instruct you which doors are required to be fire doors. If you need to know which doors need to be upgraded or repaired, you need the services of a fire door inspector check out Fire Door Inspection service or similar organisation.

It is a fire drill, so knowing how people react is important so there should be a number of people not involved in the drill (wearing a high viz coat) but checking what is happening so they can give a good report at the debrief, every body else should act if it was for real. Remember this is not a legal requirement so anybody who chooses not to take part you have no legal powers.

Originally panic bars were only used in places of public assemble and where not used for normal access/exit, the main doors were used instead. As the main doors had to cope with the total occupancy, there was an extra amount of exit width and it was considered the chance of a panic was low because of the choice of the number of exits available. In an emergency most would be exiting via the emergency exits where it was considered a panic might happen, so emergency exits were fitted with panic bars and not the main doors, but not always. Over the years they started to be used in many buildings, usually on emergency fire exit doors which were only used for emergencies, now days it is all about risk assessment and as a rule of thumb AB,s used by 60 or more is reasonable.

You can, but the old one has to be removed and the new fitted in accordance with the manufactures fire test certificate. (global risk assessment)

I am not aware of any guidance to assist you but you could use the purpose built guide which has this problem highlighted and apply it with your fire risk head fixed on.

It could be argued that it is a two storey, flat on ground floor and a maisonette on the first/second floor requiring grade D (interlinked) in the common area with a heat fire alarm in each occupancy, with a grade D in each tenancy not interlinked. But it is all about risk assessment and the guides could be ignored, it depends how concerned you are about the situation.