Tom Sutton

Dan the only mandatory requirement is the fire safety order (RR(FS)O) the rest is recommendation, prescriptive fire safety went out with the Fire Precautions Act. However some guidance like British Standards are considered best practice and you need to be able to justify your decision if you are challenged by the FRS auditor or the courts.

Depends if you are trying to protect from, an arson attack or to maintain the fire resistance integrity of a fire door. Check out http://www.safelincs...on-letterboxes/ and http://www.envirogra...lap_system.html or surf the web there are many others.

A overhead fire door closer and door coordinator device (also known as a door selector) also yes they can be adjusted. Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-door-fitting-and-ironmongery/

Dan as I said "You could discuss it with an expert independent fire alarm engineer" and thanks CWEENG for sharing it with us all.

Could they not certify the system with an agreed variation as suggested by CWEENG? You could discuss it with them or get advice from an independent fire alarm engineer. I do not think its about the time, I think they found as the result of the research the smoke leaking from the bedroom only remained buoyant for 1.5 m and any detectors further than that did not activate. But considering all the variables I think that is why they used the word approximately.

This is a matter for Building Control and the current guidance is Approved Document B (fire safety) with the expertise of structural engineers employed by building control. The maximum fire resistance required for Means of Escape is 60 mins and I am fairly certain exposed steel beams would achieve this.

BS 5839 states "approximately 1.5 m" so you could push the approximately in your argument and I agree with you it is code hugging but developing a counter view is difficult. I believe it comes from the 1980,s when they carried out research to determine, how far buoyant smoke leaking from a bedroom could travel to activate a smoke detector, in this case it is leaking from the lift shaft.

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 is about Fire Risk Assessment and the order is drafted with this in mind. Article 13 which deals with fire alarms, which reflects this, it starts with "Where necessary" and 13 1b any non-automatic fire-fighting equipment so provided is easily accessible, simple to use and indicated by signs. So if it is necessary a sign should be supplied and if the lighting is very poor a luminous sign may be required, this will be decided by the FRA. However the lighting and emergency escape lighting should be of a standard that this situation does not occur.

We are talking about two separate issue here, the emergency escape lighting should meet minimum illumination in accordance with BS 5266 pt 1 2011 and this can be checked with a light meter. If fire signs are reducing the light level below the standard in BS 5266 the it should be removed or additional luminaries should be fitted. Illuminated exit escape signs tend to use the Euro-style sign which is still legal in accordance with Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations 1996 until it is amended in accordance with PR EN 7010 when it becomes a European Norm. Unfortunately for the moment we have to accept this. Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-exit-signs/ and http://www.firesafe.org.uk/emergency-lighting/ and http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-safety-signs/

There has been changes to most of the UK government websites like Department of Communities and Local Government, which makes finding anything difficult especially statistics but http://www.statistic.../hub/index.html may help. You could also try posting on http://forum.fire.org.uk/

With regards to effectiveness of automatic sprinkler systems check out http://www.bre.co.uk/page.jsp?id=422 and Fatal Accident Inquiry report

3.4.4 Emergency escape lighting People in your premises must be able to find their way to a place of safety if there is a fire by using escape routes that have enough lighting. In premises of limited size/occupation, e.g. ground and first floor, with a small number of residents (up to four) who do not rely upon staff for assistance with evacuation, and where the escape routes are simple and straightforward, borrowed lighting from a dependable source, e.g. from streetlamps where they illuminate the escape routes, may be acceptable. In most care homes particularly those that are larger and more complex with more residents, a more comprehensive system of automatic emergency escape lighting should be in place to illuminate all the escape routes. Where people have difficulty seeing conventional signs, a ‘way-guidance’ system may need to be considered. Further guidance on emergency escape lighting is given in Part 2, Section 5. Check out https://www.gov.uk/g...ential-care.pdf or

All fire doors require a self-closing device to be fitted but if the self-closer causes problems and the door needs to be held open for access reasons then magnetic hold open devices can be fitted. They work as you have suggested check out http://www.firesafe....nd-ironmongery/ incidentally these devices should be tested regularly.

If this is a final exit door I see no problems with this arrangement, moreover if you need security from the outside then the self closer is required to achieve that. The means of escape from the premises is from the inside to the outside, through this door and using the push pad means you do not require the use of a key.

All doors in common use by the general public make ideal fire escape doors because the location in well known. Some people think that a door with a fire exit sign above are only for safe egress in the advent of a fire, this is not true. All doors used for means of escape in the advent of a fire, are fire doors, but those whose location is less familiar should be indicated with a fire exit sign including the escape route.

Stop, Wrap, Drop and Roll Fire services and police throughout the country recommend the 'STOP, WRAP, DROP AND ROLL' rule if they ever find themselves in the situation where they have to help someone whose clothing has caught fire - even themselves: STOP - means don't panic and run about, as it will make the fire worse WRAP - the victim in a rug, coat or blanket DROP - to the floor, and... ROLL - until the flames are extinguished Then, straightaway, pour cold water over the burn for at least 10 minutes but don't remove any clothing. You can remove any tight belts or jewellery that the injured person is wearing as burned skin tends to swell. Cover the burned area with a clean, smooth cloth or cling-film to keep out infection until it can be properly dressed. Unless it's a very small burn, take the injured person to hospital or dial 999, especially if they lose consciousness. Lastly, don't give the person anything to eat or drink in case they need a general anesthetic at the hospital. This will means as well as a blanket you need water to be available in fair large quantity and a means to apply it to the victim.

Tom how did you do your assessment if the two emergency lights are still functioning or were they disabled.

I have been retired some years and I am aware of the savage cuts to the FRS but if that is the present situation its a sad state of affairs and at a time when operation response has been reduced then domestic fire safety is more important. I only hope my FRS has not fallen to those levels. All I can say a firefighters role is far more than rescuing and extinguishing fires and if the training has fallen to those levels the senior management in your FRS needs to rectify the situation.

Hi green-foam it applies everywhere check out Gov-UK https://www.gov.uk/g...-bonfires-rules and before you say it 5th Nov bonfires are just extra large garden bonfires. :D

Martin you are absolutely correct the bolts should be removed during the time the premises are occupied. If we are talking about panic bar situation this can be achieved by removing the keep so the bolt can be removed and placed on board in the manager office. This will ensure he/she is aware that all the door with panic bars are available in the case of an emergency.

You can install fire resisting glazing into fire doors but it should be done by a specialist joinery firm, check out http://www.bmtrada.com/ and http://www.bwf.org.uk/ for suitable firms.

Green-foam firefighters are required to conduct community fire safety which means carrying out fire risk assessments, installing and maintaining domestic smoke detectors in the home. I know their training will be intensive and changing a battery is not what I would call mind blowing so I would consider using the fire station as a good move.

Green-foam check out http://www.tewkesbury.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1803.

Are you referring to a final exit door leading to outside the premises or an internal fire door?

You seem to think there is a book called Fire Regulations and it lists all the do's and don'ts, this is not the case, it is mostly fire risk assessment/common sense. A fire resistant door could be approached from either direction so, Keep Shut signs need to be fixed to both sides of the door, unless hold open devices are fixed. Fire Exit signs show you the safe route out of the premises so they will only be fitted one side of an escape door.