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Read and inwardly digest for the risks involved leaving fire doors open Rosepark care home deaths 'preventable' inquiry finds - BBC News

There is risk it could be left ajar after use or not held enough on the latch to resist the pressures caused by a developed fire,both rendering the door ineffective. The keep locked shut designation is in place of having a self closer on the door - if the locking is no longer convenient then fitting a self closer will keep the door effective.

They are rarely used outside of ships and vehicles in the UK as they aren't recognised as an acceptable means of fire protection, you see them used more in Ireland and Spain and similar, so there isn't loads of guidance out there. Based on various sources I can find and the linked, it's mounted above the hazard at a height from the floor in the range of 1.5 - 3m https://www.emme-italia.com/sites/default/files/librettotecnico/13069-3_13129-3_Technical manual.pdf

It sounds classic latent defect, it's very common to find with blocks with lots of shortcomings that Building Control happily have let past as 'it's the developers responsibility to comply not ours'

It's all determined by who is a Responsible Person as per the definitions in the law: - For the commercial unit it would be the tenant as they are both: a) An employer having a degree of control over a workplace; & b) A person having control of part of a premises for the carrying on of an undertaking (because they have a lease) - For the flats it would be the person having control of the areas in common which would usually be the freeholder (although depending of the extent of their control the managing agent may be part of the mix in addition, but still 1 FRA either instructed by the agent or the freeholder direct) So TWO FRAs with a legal duty to share relevant fire safety information and to account for all relevant persons If the retail unit was vacant and thus back under the control of the freeholder then it could in theory be one building wide FRA, but as soon as a tenant moves into the unit there will be both changes to the premises and Responsible Person so you are back to TWO again

There is a guide and template to allow small blocks of flat to be self assessed, however it doesn't apply to conversions unless fully compliant with post 1991 Building Regulations guidance, so the inference is you use a registered professional (listed here - some providers join a fire related trade or advisory body like the FPA & pass it off as 'approved' when they don't vet or register assessors https://www.firesectorfederation.co.uk/fire-risk-assessment/fire-risk-assesment-directory/ ) It's been law for many years so your original solicitors should have mentioned this. The key issues with your arrangement are: - level of fire separation between flats - external wall fire risk (but only a trivial factor in a building this small really) This will determine if the current set up (assuming it's stay put in the flat not on fire) is tolerable or whether it should be an evacuation block requiring installation of a fire alarm system that covers the common landing AND both flats (not just a smoke alarm in the common landing). From experience not all require the 'nuclear' option of a full alarm system and can stay as is with minor works and production & issue of resident fire safety information - but this can only be determined by a proper FRA (that does look in the flats to some extent)

I'm looking at Approved Document B for Dwellinghouses. I'm struggling to figure out if basements can use any normal protected stairway layout or if 2.16 is saying that it'd need to connect to a final exit in a specific way. Specifically whether they can use the separated routes option that is detailed in 2.5a and diagram 2.2b. Perhaps the answer is obvious to a more experienced eye. Does anyone know? Context is desired: A friend looking at buying their first home. Most likely (given budget and locale) the fairly typical 2 up 2 down layout (where the basement stairs are sandwiched between the kitchen and living room with the final exits on the front and rear walls. Ideally (given the terrifying cost of housing) they'd like to be able assess whether they could convert the basement into habitable rooms when looking at houses. Just for convenience, the relevant sections of approved document B that I know about are: 2.16, 2.5a, diagram 2.2 and that "Protected Stairway" entry in appendix A. (Feel free to drop other useful advice if you have it.)

If you haven't looked at the guide -Fire Safety in Specialised Housing, it may assist.

Hi AnthonyB Thank you very much for your reply - much appreciated.

Hello, I hope someone can assist. Is there a definitive answer of how many FRA's are required for a building comprising: Building is owned by one person. Large RENTAL retail unit on the ground floor with independent escape routes. Rented out by the building owner. 10 flats on the upper floors with independent escape routes. Rented out by the building owner. Is it three FRA's? One for the flats communal areas One for the commercial One for the entire building Or is it two? One for the flats communal areas One for the commercial Or is it something else?? Thanks for reading this far!

Hello, We purchased our flat 6 years ago. It’s a converted Victorian house split into only 2 flats. There is a main front door and then a fire door to each flat. (The hallway where the front door leads with both flat doors is about 1.5m long with nothing in it at all.) When we purchased the flat (first time buyers), a fire risk assessment was not mentioned by our solicitors. However, we are now selling it and the buyers solicitors have asked for one. Do we need to pay to have this done? Or can we fill in a template ourselves for example? The only common area is this tiny hallway. Our flat has its own private rear door with fire escape gate in the fence. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

how high is the risk of leaving a sluice room fire door that is marked as keep locked left on the latch or a linen storage room left on the latch

I believe there are cold smoke seals on the door, however as you suggested, its not enough to close the gaps. I am asking the developer for evidence that the door has been certified as FD30s and the gaps were all in line with FD30s requirement as 10mm threshold gap and 6mm closing side gap seems a lot if it was originally 3mm for both 5 years ago. Regardless I think it need to be fixed, but if I can prove that its installation problem / latent defact then I may be able to save £600 to fix it.

Are you a qualified and time served joiner or equivalent? If not an online course for a very practical task seems inadequate, especially as it appears not to have even taught about routing and routing depths for seals? Sounds like the employer has tried to save a few quid but let you down in the process.

Could anyone please tell me the correct height for installation of an automatic powder fire extinguisher for use in a forklift charging bay. I can't find anything solid so guess it's based on risk assessment. Hope someone can help. It's like this model https://www.ebay.ie/itm/223302628047?chn=ps&var=522088230647&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=5282-166454-587998-0&mkcid=2&itemid=522088230647_223302628047&targetid=2308550382942&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9198581&poi=&campaignid=20320759638&mkgroupid=152362499922&rlsatarget=pla-2308550382942&abcId=&merchantid=5542277354&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20320759638&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjL3HBhCgARIsAPUg7a4R4TB50NO5kZZ9Pm2XNiRdcjdU2tj-0JWuR1QtWmh-IyZXp1i7QU0aAshVEALw_wcB

Does sounds rather like a DoLS situation or a lockdown provision but very out of the ordinary if not a secure unit/PRU (even then it's not usually individual classrooms with that level of extra security when occupied). I'd ask for justification & what the FRA uses to mitigate it.

The door blank would have a FD30 sticker regardless of if it's in a FD30 or FD30S doorset as it's the addition of cold smoke seals to the frame (or door blank) that make it 's' Do you actually have cold smoke seals on the door? Even if you do the gaps seem excessive and it's unlikely the seal will fill the gaps to touch the frame edge either.

I had this issue at a more modern (80's) flat build - research is such that a standard 4" solid glass block is usually acceptable for 45 minutes fire resistance, which as the protection for a small full evacuation block would only need to be 30 mins makes them sufficient. https://glassblockblogger.com/2015/09/03/glass-blocks-and-fire-safety-codes/ If you needed a greater level of fire resistance there would be a traceability issue as in these cases the blocks are specially made to have greater FR but that's not needed here.

Yes, in essence it's built as a care home or residential (other) as not stay put - the roof voids should follow the compartment lines of at least each PHE compartment boundary & preferably every bedroom. Improper compartmentation in roof voids helped kill 14 people at Rosepark Care home. Unfortunately too many developers and their Building Inspectors seem to use semantics to get through inadequate safety standards in design by classifying a premises as something it clearly won't be when operational

According to this website click me the lock is NOT fire rated. (I used google)

Bryony at https://www.ironout.co.uk/ can help

Correct, flat doors should be FD30S, this has been the case since at least December 2018. To comply, the head and side gaps should be 3mm ±1mm (irrespective of smoke). The threshold on a smoke door should be a maximum of 3mm. I suspect that the door was never compliant in the first place.

I live in a 1920s house converted in 1954 into four flats only two of which share a communal staircase/fire exit. The fire assessment seems to suggest that the glass blocks that form the entrance wall of my flat cannot be proved to be fire resistant and so might have to be replaced. The blocks are hollow glass 4" deep and fire resistance was specified in the plans of 1954. The fire assessment report does suggest risk must be balanced against costs in a case like this - we will have interlinked smoke alarms and an emergency exit .HOWEVER we have to provide proof that these were fire resistant and tested, but of course there was no actual fire rating then! How can we do that if we don't know the manufacturer. They have been in place since 1954. Noone will give advice on this, and the fire brigade say it should be ok but won't put that in writing. As there are only two actual floors and two people sharing this exit... can we argue against this judgement. It will cost a great deal to replace like for like, but without glass we have no borrowed light and it seems excessive

Hi there - is compartmentation required in roof voids where there a supported living service where disabled residents require support to evacuate and it may take additional time at night to reduced staffing. I head landlords often say the building is compliant and it is down to care providers to fix the issue based on their customers. I am talking about small buildings with multiple rooms where residents live and share communal areas. I see in the ADB that 30 minutes of fire resistance can be spread throughout the home to 30 minutes fire resistance however does this allow for a PHE. It is also quite difficult to know whether dwellings or buildings other than dwellings apply.